hex of perplexion

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It took me a bit longer than normal with the end of the school year and lots of school projects to finish, but I finally got the time to finish up all my swatches!

On a similar note I went on a field trip recently with my son s class and they were asked to separate their lunch leftovers into garbage, recycle, and compost. and it gives a character 25-EXP per use - as long as it s hitting 5-people four and the user wearer - I knew it was only a matter of time of using it naturally in battle - over and over again - till Kiwi would get to Level-40.

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Kiwi guy madam magic

Post by Doomblade66 » Sun Oct 04 2009 12:28pm

Hi guys. Just as a test of something I've never done before, I'd like to try taking one of my party members this time around (on Super) to level-40, before promoting. The only one I was considering doing this with was Kiwi, since he is a fun character to use, but Level-20 promotions on a default Super run, tends to make him very weak and hard to use effectively, as the game goes on. His attack tends to stagnate, and his DEF, while great, doesn't work as well for him as it might since his HP is so low. Plus that low end-game HP makes Chaos Wizards and Demon Masters destroy him.

So. my question is. at what battle or specific enemies do you normally have a chance to reach Level-40. By this I mean, "naturally" reach it - not just use Protect Ring endlessly, or Fairy Woods Special Stage shenanigans. like. Kiwi is Level-38, let's pretend. He attacks and kills an enemy. "Kiwi gains 37 exp" - or some such.

Like, what monsters do you have to be killing, at that level, to still be getting decent exp after kills/attacks ?

I'm curious how long you have to grind/suffer with non-promoted guys (though it won't be AS bad with Kiwi, as it would with others). to get to that Level-40 point.

Re: Level-40 Progression Question

Post by MXC » Sun Oct 04 2009 3:51pm

I don't really know, but I'd assume his levels would start capping like they would with any other character (promoted). You'll just have to play through the game. I'd think that he'd be hitting 40 when your other characters were hitting 20 promoted. Or damn near. Not 100% sure though.

Just abuse the Fairy Woods

Edit- The thing with 40 promotion is that it makes your characters badass in the long run. However, if you're playing straight through, it will hinder your characters a lot. It's really only good if you power level to 40, then play on normally.

Re: Level-40 Progression Question

Post by SirHedge » Sun Oct 04 2009 6:01pm

Someone else a while ago said they hit level 40 around Red Baron.
The monster levels confirm that estimate.

Re: Level-40 Progression Question

Post by Doomblade66 » Sun Oct 04 2009 10:54pm

It's almost impossible then, I'd think - to survive the game - on Super in particular - with trying to "naturally" get to Level-40 Promoted then. as it means you have no access to the stronger weaponry needed for most of your characters, or the higher stat-gains they can get.

I mean. 2-square Archers and Bowie with the Achilles Sword. through Zalbard. Cameela. and all the way to Red Baron ? - it sounds impossible.

Oh. hi Mud Man ! Bowie Attacks ! Mud Man suffers 6 damage. Mud Man counter-attacks. Bowie suffers 28 points of damage. - etc

I can see that being the usual battle progression.

The only characters it sort of helps is the unarmed ones that don't need the weapons, but even they (like Kiwi, Gerhalt, etc) start getting much better stat gains once promoted - Att-2, Def-2, Agi-1 - much more regularly for Kiwi, with some HP-1's thrown in. And his fire-breath, lest' I forget.

Re: Level-40 Progression Question

Post by SirHedge » Sun Oct 04 2009 11:15pm

I've never tried it, but I'd imagine it's not impossible since you get +1.5 on average after level 30, a rate that beats some character's promotion gains. Some characters, like Slade, also have brilliant gains between levels 20 and 30, which helps. It really does ruin archers, however. That third range makes a huge difference.

Re: Level-40 Progression Question

Post by Doomblade66 » Mon Oct 05 2009 10:10am

Okay. I used duplicated Brave Apples on Kiwi (Godzila in my current game ) to boost him up from Level-24 to Level-40. I had gotten to Level-24 "fair and square" - and was in the battle just before entering Creed's Mansion - where Skeletons first appear and you can nab the Protect Ring from the Dark Madam.

Since I had gotten the P-Ring. and it gives a character 25-EXP per use - as long as it's hitting 5-people (four and the user/wearer) - I knew it was "only a matter of time" of using it naturally in battle - over and over again - till Kiwi would get to Level-40. so instead of suffering through all those potential hours of using ring. Stay Stay Stay - for everyone else. letting all the monsters Stay and sit where they are - just to get back to Kiwi again and use it again - etc etc - stopping to repair if cracked, etc. - etc - I just skipped ahead and used the Apples to ensure the Level-40 target was reached.

Here's what I found. . .

The level-ups' that Kiwi got from 25 to 40 end up totaling the following "extra stats" for our green monster friend:

Total Statistics for Kiwi as a Level-40 Tortoise

* note that I used 1 Bread of Life (+4 HP) on him as well as 1 Power Wine (+4 Attack) and 1 Protect Milk (+4 Defense).

So. subtracting those power-up items,

Level-40 Tortoise
HP-26
ATT-63
DEF-68
AGI-47

What I find interesting is that, despite all this supposed power. he can still be hit hard by enemies' magic - just as much as before - the extra HP just helps him be slightly more survivable in the end-game - when facing Blaze-4's and Freeze-4's. He may still die to a single hit from either - we'll have to see what he's at by the time I get to that point in the game.

Also interesting to note is how enemies rapidly end up shooting higher in their ATTACK, particularly on Super, which I'm playing this run on. Lesser Demons, for instance, as soon as we get out of Creed's - are packing 76-Attack. This means they could hit Level-40 Kiwi for about 5-6 points of damage with their attacks. Yes, he'll level up a bit between now and then- but I suspect he'll still get hit hard by later-game enemies.

It just means he's got a chance now - instead of getting crushed in one hit as often happens on Super - if you promote him at Level-20.

Also interesting to note is how enemies rapidly end up shooting higher in their ATTACK, particularly on Super, which I'm playing this run on. Lesser Demons, for instance, as soon as we get out of Creed's - are packing 76-Attack. This means they could hit Level-40 Kiwi for about 5-6 points of damage with their attacks. Yes, he'll level up a bit between now and then- but I suspect he'll still get hit hard by later-game enemies.

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hex of perplexion