The Impact of Vtggrt Isnseid Updidwn Mahic on the World of Illusion

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New Schools of Magic & Spell Focus

Ok, I've searched several times for this topic, but have yet to find it, so I'm finally asking about it.

In the APG, two new types of Schools of magic were created, Elemental and Focused Arcane Schools.

Instead of specializing in one of the standard eight schools
of magic, a wizard can choose to specialize in one of the
four elemental schools of magic. Like a normal arcane
school, an elemental school grants a number of school
powers and one bonus spell slot of each level the wizard
can cast, from 1st on up. This bonus spell slot must be used
to prepare a spell from the elemental school’s spell list (see
Chapter 5). Unlike a normal arcane school, each elemental
school requires the wizard to select his opposed element
as his opposition school (air opposes earth, f ire opposes
water). He does not need to select a second opposition
school. He must expend two spell slots to prepare a spell
from his opposed elemental school as normal.

So, my question is, do the elemental schools qualify for Spell Focus?

Choose a school of magic. Any spells you cast of that school
are more difficult to resist.
Benefit: Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving
throws against spells from the school of magic you select.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects
do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new
school of magic.

Now, I understand that I couldn't take say Fire and Evocation as two separate feats and have them stack, the feat specifically calls out that they don't, but its been accepted that Elemental Focus and Spell Focus stack, so would Elemental Focus (Fire) and Spell Focus (Fire) be legal feats to take for a Fire Elementalist Wizard? I'm thinking yes, but wondering others views on this. If there wasn't the specific spell list for elementalists, I probably wouldn't have even considered it, but alas.

Ok, I've searched several times for this topic, but have yet to find it, so I'm finally asking about it.

In the APG, two new types of Schools of magic were created, Elemental and Focused Arcane Schools.

** spoiler omitted **

So, my question is, do the elemental schools qualify for Spell Focus?

** spoiler omitted **

Now, I understand that I couldn't take say Fire and Evocation as two separate feats and have them stack, the feat specifically calls out that they don't, but its been accepted that Elemental Focus and Spell Focus stack, so would Elemental Focus (Fire) and Spell Focus (Fire) be legal feats to take for a Fire Elementalist Wizard? I'm thinking yes, but wondering others views on this. If there wasn't the specific spell list for elementalists, I probably wouldn't have even considered it, but alas.

I would say no. Elemental Focus seems, to me, to be the focus you take. Spell Focus applies to the Traditional Schools.

However, the text is indeed ambivalent, so far as I can see. and since you don't have to specialize in a school to focus in it, all casters can do it. This strikes me as not a good thing. but at the same time, spell focus doesn't stack, so spell focus: fire and spell focus: evocation only goes once to a fireball.

Actually, it seems fine. Devoting two feats to this, not really overpowered, considering they don't stack.

Allowing elemental focus and spell focus to stack doesn't hurt anything. In fact, spell focus (evocation) is better than elemental focus (anything) in every way (maybe with a couple of exceptions). There is no reason to get elemental focus unless it stacks with spell focus.

Allowing elemental focus and spell focus to stack doesn't hurt anything. In fact, spell focus (evocation) is better than elemental focus (anything) in every way (maybe with a couple of exceptions). There is no reason to get elemental focus unless it stacks with spell focus.

Yeah, they definitely stack.

The question is whether you can take spell focus in one of the elemental schools. They are listed as being schools, and spell focus applies to a school you choose. So it seems legit. In this case, since spell focus doesn't stack with itself, spell focus fire would not stack with spell focus evocation, but either would stack with elemental focus fire.

Yeah, you could take SF(Evo) and cover most of the spells in the Fire Elemental School, but I guess why I was really wondering were for spells like Pyrotechnics, Firefall, and Geyser. These are Transmutation and Conjuration spells.

On another note, are the spells in the All section of the Elemental spell list all on each of the elements if it is cast as that element? So a Fire Elementalist could use Elemental Touch in a bonus spell slot? I assume yes, and they did that just so they didn't have to repeat the spells in every school.

So, my question is, do the elemental schools qualify for Spell Focus?

Sorry for the necromancy, but it seems appropriate to tie this in here following a conversation on the PFS board.

No, the elemental schools do not qualify for Spell Focus. Each spell has a spellblock that defines the crunchy portion of the spell. Regarding School, we have the following definition:

Beneath the spell name is a line giving the school of magic (and the subschool, if any) to which the spell belongs.

Almost every spell belongs to one of eight schools of magic. A school of magic is a group of related spells that work in similar ways. A small number of spells (arcane mark, limited wish, permanency, prestidigitation, and wish) are universal, belonging to no school.

The text that appears in the School line in the spell identifies the school of magic for the spell. A spell can be of one school or it can be universal. The spell's school is what determines what spells are affected by Spell Focus (foo). The elemental schools are a concept that is not fully integrated into the magic system regarding schools, subschools, and descriptors; while spoken of as schools within the APG, there are no spells with the school listed as fire, air, water, or earth. Rather, these are present as descriptors.

If Spell Focus (fire) is possible, it would apply to spells of the school Fire; a school of magic that is undefined (even in the APG), and which has no spells which are members. Fire may be a school of wizardry, but it is not a school of magic in the same sense as the standard schools.

There is no errata on this in the second printing and no FAQ entry on it. If the intent of the developers are that the elemental specialists presented in the APG should allow for Spell Focus (fire) or the application of other rules resources that are based on the school of magic for a spell, additional rules text is required.

Note: This topic is of particular interest for PFS, where Wizard characters substitute Spell Focus as the first level bonus feat instead of Scribe Scroll; if the issue is solely related to PFS, it might be best handled by a modification to the PFS rule regarding the substitute feat by granting the option of Elemental Focus as the bonus feat at first level.

Choose a school of magic. Any spells you cast of that school
are more difficult to resist.
Benefit: Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving
throws against spells from the school of magic you select.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects
do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new
school of magic.

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