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Eeofol can be reach as soon as you get to Nighon (and this can be done on early levels - just run past mosnters). All what you need is Invisibility spell/scroll and/or good keyboard managment, to run past monsters.
IIRC there are only two place/monsters that block your way in Tunnels to Eeofol and they are hardly to avoid without fight but it is possible to evade these mosters with a lot of patience. Later in Eeofol you only need to active portal to Harmondale and you can go back there anytime.
As for Celeste/Pit - as soon you get there and have Invisibility spell, there is no problem to visit obelisk. But yes, these places are available in the middle at game it the best cases. At least it's not like Regna in MM9, which is available nearly the end of game.

Also actual uttility of DE does not make up for the point that pre set position of hirelings, define which character should be main, and play style of start of game altogether. That doesnt change fact that elf unlike alost all other classes except troll with doesnt have any specific skills knight couldn t substitute is not availiable at start of the game.

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The Heroes Round Table

I don't think I get your point to be honest. It's not like you're forced to stay in Ravenshore until you do the Arion Hunter.

That doesnt change fact that elf(unlike alost all other classes except troll with doesnt have any specific skills knight couldn't substitute) is not availiable at start of the game. Thus it basically makes DE (except for some specific reasons) best starting class/

Ingenuity and knowledge you get from replaying game second time or reading walk through is not ingenuity I can take Cauri at the start of game as well, but I wouldnt call it some thinking outside the box. Effective but nothing to do with my supreme intellect. I just know there is such option or I don't.

Must agree with this. Eofol and both Celeste/Pit is not available until end game. Also loot is sort of meh, aside from point that one might like to collect artifacts in game. in mm8 it's even worse due to Regna(concept of Regana available until 1/3 1/4 last part of game is quite game breaking imo in general as it locks many skill progressions and forces to take high lvl npc's). Fact of one night per year is even more worse as having to wait for it is even harder than actual gathering of obelisks.
Wonder why they didn't add obelisk challenge to mm9. Its not like adding single low polygon model with 10 strings of text is that hard.

Unread post by GrayFace » 15 Sep 2012, 11:25

Arret wrote: 1) You have to get to places that are near impossible (Eeofol) or flat out impossible(Regna) in order to get all the obelisks until much later in the game.

It puzzles me a bit how people figured it out in MM8. Obelisks are totally misguiding. First, wrong time. It doesn't take a mathematician to calculate that "middle of the summer" is July 16-17 (or July 14-15 in MM calendar). Thinking better one would come up with June 21-22, which is the longest day of the year. In MM8 the day is June 24, which doesn't make any sense at all. Second, the place is wrong. Unicorn King doesn't appear among other unicorns, it appears in the middle of the map.

tress wrote: Whats with all necroposting.
That doesnt change fact that elf(unlike alost all other classes except troll with doesnt have any specific skills knight couldn't substitute) is not availiable at start of the game. Thus it basically makes DE (except for some specific reasons) best starting class/

Not at all. If you want to have a DE in your party, that would make much sense. However, DE is a really weak class, why would you want it in your party?

My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

Unread post by Tress » 15 Sep 2012, 11:48

In fact once correctly understood that midsummer is not same middle of summer I instantly recognized that it is meant on 24 June. Then again in my country midsummer is important celebration. No less if not more than xmas.

Not at all. If you want to have a DE in your party, that would make much sense. However, DE is a really weak class, why would you want it in your party?

Most class can substitute each other especially in begging of the game. DE on other hand is sole class that have all utility skills available like disarm and merchant. Also not to mention I fail to see how it is weak. Until middle of game his/her spells are no weaker than necromancers, bow is extremely helpful when there is low mana resource at start of game, and elf ability is also extremely potent.
In fact only class that I dont see good redeeming qualities is minotaur as he dont have special skills and knight perform slashing on much higher level. Perception is not that important, and low level self magic is not too useful either

Unread post by GrayFace » 15 Sep 2012, 20:37

Not 100%. I don't remember my experience, but I read this in 2 places recently. Since MM8 didn't get any official patches, this should be valid for any game.

tress wrote: In fact once correctly understood that midsummer is not same middle of summer I instantly recognized that it is meant on 24 June. Then again in my country midsummer is important celebration. No less if not more than xmas.

tress wrote: Most class can substitute each other especially in begging of the game. DE on other hand is sole class that have all utility skills available like disarm and merchant. Also not to mention I fail to see how it is weak. Until middle of game his/her spells are no weaker than necromancers, bow is extremely helpful when there is low mana resource at start of game, and elf ability is also extremely potent.
In fact only class that I dont see good redeeming qualities is minotaur as he dont have special skills and knight perform slashing on much higher level. Perception is not that important, and low level self magic is not too useful either

Knight disarms traps well, necromancer (or better dragon) identifies items and merchant I consider a waste of skill points. I don't remember how DEs work in party actually. I'm sure they're good in the beginning and they can unload some skill burden from necro later by learning Air and ID Item (if playing without a dragon), but I would rather choose another necro instead of DE
Old classes outperform the new ones, except Dragon ofc. Among new classes I'd choose troll as the most compelling due to paralyze ability.

My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

Unread post by Tress » 16 Sep 2012, 09:12

Knight disarms traps well, necromancer (or better dragon) identifies items and merchant I consider a waste of skill points. I don't remember how DEs work in party actually. I'm sure they're good in the beginning and they can unload some skill burden from necro later by learning Air and ID Item (if playing without a dragon), but I would rather choose another necro instead of DE smile

You will need GM(or high level) disarm eventually, so it is better to give it to character that will be dedicated to it. Merchant unless you are taking pre leveled chars and ditching others will bankrupt you with training. Also during beginning phase of game bow is extremely good. Anyway game is quite easy anyway so it doesn't matter that much(at least combat is easy, but not having disarm or other utility skill when you need it can make frustrating.)

Also actual uttility of DE does not make up for the point that pre set position of hirelings, define which character should be main, and play style of start of game altogether. It would be much more interesting if starting hirelings would be randomized.

Unread post by Avonu » 16 Sep 2012, 11:11

From MMVII experience I can say that Knight with 1 point in Disarm Trap and with ring +25 to Disarm Trap is enough to open most of the chests. And for the few rest, Dodge/Perception + Regeneration/Heal spells were enough.

tress wrote: Merchant unless you are taking pre leveled chars and ditching others will bankrupt you with training.

No, it doesnt.
There is enough gold in game to throw away few millions here and there. It isn't MM3-5 or MM9, where every dime was valuable.
And IIRC merchant also lower costs of trening, it is character (advanced) class which rise it (or if you put too many points in expert/(grand)master merchant and then counter could broke and you get negative bonus - at least this is another bug in MM9).

Not 100%. I don't remember my experience, but I read this in 2 places recently. Since MM8 didn't get any official patches, this should be valid for any game.

IIRC if you won't visit all obelisks, Unicorn King won't spawn at all OR it won't have key OR Vault of Time won't open until you visit all obelisks.
There is a need to do that, but I really don't remember which case above was true in MM8 (in MM7 you simply couldn't open treasure chest, even if you know how to do that - you needed to visit all obelisks first).

Eeofol can be reach as soon as you get to Nighon (and this can be done on early levels - just run past mosnters). All what you need is Invisibility spell/scroll and/or good keyboard managment, to run past monsters.
IIRC there are only two place/monsters that block your way in Tunnels to Eeofol and they are hardly to avoid without fight but it is possible to evade these mosters with a lot of patience. Later in Eeofol you only need to active portal to Harmondale and you can go back there anytime.
As for Celeste/Pit - as soon you get there and have Invisibility spell, there is no problem to visit obelisk. But yes, these places are available in the middle at game it the best cases. At least it's not like Regna in MM9, which is available nearly the end of game.

Unread post by GrayFace » 16 Sep 2012, 14:47

tress wrote: You will need GM(or high level) disarm eventually, so it is better to give it to character that will be dedicated to it.

Uh, I forgot, Knight is just an Expert. Very frequently I pick chests without sufficient Disarm Trap skill. Cleric can take about 5 chests until he runs out of spell points for healing himself, while others are in Preservation. At the end of the game chests are less of a threat AFAIR.

tress wrote: Merchant unless you are taking pre leveled chars and ditching others will bankrupt you with training.

I don't remember having any problems with it in MM7/MM8. In fact my last 7 games in MM8 were solo, so I don't remember party games well. I only remember how I ran out of cash when I played solo Lich. Higher levels up to 200 were very expensive. Lich has ID Item, so I used to drop all loot I don't need thinking I would have way more money than I can spend anyway, but at the end I had to sell a little to level up.

tress wrote: Also during beginning phase of game bow is extremely good. Anyway game is quite easy anyway so it doesn't matter that much(at least combat is easy, but not having disarm or other utility skill when you need it can make frustrating.)

Yes. I end up making artificial limitations to make it less so. One of them is not using bows, or using bows only until the monster approaches the party and not using turn-based mode.

My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

Not 100%. I don't remember my experience, but I read this in 2 places recently. Since MM8 didn't get any official patches, this should be valid for any game.

The bottle itself is transparent, allowing the amber-colored liquid inside to be seen. It is adorned with a golden seal, adding to the sense of magic and luxury. Viktor & Rolf's "Magic Sage Spell" is a fragrance that aims to capture the power and allure of magic. With its enchanting scent and imaginative packaging, it invites the wearer to embrace their inner magician and indulge in a world of fantasy..

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