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Russ swore that he would cut Durath's head from his shoulders and demanded that the Dark Angels allow him to lead his Space Wolves in an immediate assault upon the Tyrant's Crimson Fortress. Jonson had spent days scouting the weak points of the fortress, meticulously planning the attack and was not about to let some hot-headed barbarian ruin his carefully laid plans. He refused Russ's demand and began the assault, storming the fortress with remarkably few casualties.

Jonson had spent days scouting the weak points of the fortress, meticulously planning the attack and was not about to let some hot-headed barbarian ruin his carefully laid plans. If I remember correctly about how good russ was that when he was fighting Magnus he happened to stumble on the battle field and there in that moment Garm helped him by hurting magnus with the spearing thus allowing Russ to then thoroughly kick the crap out of Magnus.

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iproxtaco wrote: Their undying loyalty makes them do whatever The Emperor asks of them. Angron wasn't exactly loyal, and has little or no direction in his mercilessness. Russ does, he doesn't ask questions, the events on Prospero are evidence of this.

Yes and NO, While I completely agree Russ is loyal to the Emperor (because the Emperor thinks Russ is one of the his sons) I do NOT agree he will "do whatever he is told". no I disagree. The very fact that he refuses to accept the Codex Astrates and runs by his own codex and plans is evident of that. Even after they tried to label him as a heretic.

Who, exactly, tried to institute these changes and labelled him as a Heretic? It wasn't the Emperor if you want to know. It was Guilliman and his goonies. Dorn, even more loyal to his father railed against the reformists.

The Space Wolves are known for their fiercely anti-authoritarian behavior . They strongly resist the central command structure of the Imperium , and refuse to follow the dictates of the Codex Astartes, which lays the structure and tactics to be used by all Space Marines. Their army has a strong Viking feel to them along with many wolf references and long drinking sessions, right down to their wolf-like teeth and heightened senses. They are very superstitious and only rarely make use of advanced technology used by other Chapters, such as teleportation.

Again, notice this is not disobedience to the Emperor. It's disobedience to the Imperium's command structure, which is far from the Emperor's teachings.

the Primarch (Russ) suddenly launched a furious attack. This very challenge proved to the Emperor that this was indeed one of his sons . Russ fighting with outstanding speed and power.

On the contrary iproxtaco, Space Wolves are fiercely independent and rebels that do what they want (which is why their chapter appeal to me). They may at times support and agree with the emperor out of loyalty; but, they hardly are his lap dogs. Russ still has a very intelligent and keen mind of his own.

Do you read what you quote? This was clearly before Russ knew this figure was his father. They're his lapdogs, destroying two brother Legions on his order.

This lead to a battle that lasted a week or more, until finally Russ saw how immature their squabble was and started laughing. Lion El 'Jonson (Dark Angels Primarch) took this as Russ mocking him and punched Leman Russ into unconsciousness before leaving the planet with his legion. This led to a bitter feud between the Legions (and subsequent Chapters), which lasts to this day - although recent events may finally have led to an end to the rivalry, though it is still customary for selected champions from both sides to engage in a (usually) non-lethal duel.

Not only show's Russ' fighting ability (lasted more than a week) but also his sudden and enlightened understanding of their actions. Lion El ' Johnson jumped to a hasty conclusion and won with a dishonorable and p_ssy sucker punch while Leman Russ had his guard down because he realized the whole thing was immature.

Russ started the fight. Not so enlightened now. I'm unsure as to which part of Lexicanum you're finding these quotes from. The article on The Lion has the duel lasting a day. This is pretty much a cop-out. The Lion punched Russ unconscious, he gave him what the deserved for starting the fight in the first place.

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13th Company wulfen.

Not so conclusive, is it?

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2011/07/21 20:58:49

Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!

Russ was pissed because the Lion got his men killed. He didn't start it. If my men were killed because someone was just like "Hey eff it we'll leave them haning and come back in a little bit." I'd shove a powerfist up their arse.

I'd like to know where you got that info from. The Dark Angels codex, maybe a bit biased, says something quite different.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 21:26:40

Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot

13th Company wulfen.

Not so conclusive, is it?

Actually I think it is. the first pic is of a dead world eater at the feet of a space wolf while the second one is just Kharn clocking some civvies or something without power armor.

Potent Possessed Daemonvessel

SwiftLord14 wrote: Russ was pissed because the Lion got his men killed. He didn't start it. If my men were killed because someone was just like "Hey eff it we'll leave them haning and come back in a little bit." I'd shove a powerfist up their arse.

Also, Lexicanum is an extremely unreliable source. A lot of it is based on outdated fluff, is paraphrased, and can be extremely biased (as an example, try searching for the Inquisition War pages).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/21 22:05:48

Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!

"Space wolves fighting along side the Dark Angels when suddenly without warning El 'Johnson broke ranks. The Space Wolves flanks were unprotected and many warriors were slain when the enemy couter-attacked."

Page 91 of the SW codex

Not the lexicum my friend. Sounds like they were ALREADY fighting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 21:42:17

iproxtaco wrote: I'd like to know where you got that info from. The Dark Angels codex, maybe a bit biased, says something quite different.

The Dark angels codex says Jhonson had a very good assult plan all laid out but Russ flew into a rage and charged the fortress whilst the dark angels stuck to the plan. If the spcae wolves had of stuck to the good plan the Jhonson made then they would have come of much better.

Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!

This is turning into personal preference of which Chapter you like. You says it says something different (from the Dark Angels codex) im reading what it says in the SW codex. This is going no where.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 21:47:11

Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but both the SWs in that picture are very much still alive and appear to have the upper hand considering one just pulled the other off his mount.

The Lion had a carefully laid plan. Russ destroyed it because the leader of his enemy offended him. The Lion obviously got some of Russ's men killed. For a reason. Russ, in his anger, attached The Lion.

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Hate to be the bearer of bad news but both the SWs in that picture are very much still alive and appear to have the upper hand considering one just pulled the other off his mount.

Why is he on the ground in the first place? Yeah, this isn't over.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 21:50:53

Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!

The Space Wolf is on his ass, without a backpack. He's obviously been knocked down. Even my Blind Donkey can see that.

Potent Possessed Daemonvessel

SwiftLord14 wrote: "Space wolves fighting along side the Dark Angels when suddenly without warning El 'Johnson broke ranks. The Space Wolves flanks were unprotected and many warriors were slain when the enemy couter-attacked."

Page 91 of the SW codex

Not the lexicum my friend. Sounds like they were ALREADY fighting.

Both accounts are prefaced as legends, so neither is reliable. For the record, this is what it says in Codex Dark Angels, p 20:

It was on the world of Dulan where the Space Wolves were fighting alongside the Dark Angels that matters came to a head. The Tyrant Durath had personally insulted the Emperor, sacrificing thousands of Imperial priests to his patron Daemon, and both Russ and Jonson desired the honour of slaying this heretic. The headstrong Primarch of the Space Wolves flew into a rage when Durath proclaimed that Russ was the Emperor's lap dog and would be fed to his pet grox [lulz].

Russ swore that he would cut Durath's head from his shoulders and demanded that the Dark Angels allow him to lead his Space Wolves in an immediate assault upon the Tyrant's Crimson Fortress. Jonson had spent days scouting the weak points of the fortress, meticulously planning the attack and was not about to let some hot-headed barbarian ruin his carefully laid plans. He refused Russ's demand and began the assault, storming the fortress with remarkably few casualties.

Russ, caught in a swirling combat at the base of the wall, could only howl in anger as he watched Jonson slay Durath high on the walls of the keep.

So from the Dark Angels description, it sounds like the typical Russ: headstrong, impulsive, and ever eager to get in a fight with his siblings. Maybe the Emperor should have skipped the leash, and gone straight to the choke-collar.

Of course, from the Space Wolves description, we get the typical Lion: treacherous and only concerned with his own glory.

Both of these Primarchs are bottom of the barrel.

Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!

So you are basing you opinion on a picture that could be debatable until the world ends?

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I'd believe the Dark Angles stroy better if they didn't do that SAME thing in the Second Space Wolf Omnibus.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/21 22:03:24

Stealthy Space Wolves Scout

If I remember correctly about how good russ was that when he was fighting Magnus he happened to stumble on the battle field and there in that moment Garm helped him by hurting magnus with the spearing thus allowing Russ to then thoroughly kick the crap out of Magnus.

Ambitious Space Wolves Initiate

the outer reaches of the Galaxy

SwiftLord14 wrote: "Space wolves fighting along side the Dark Angels when suddenly without warning El 'Johnson broke ranks. The Space Wolves flanks were unprotected and many warriors were slain when the enemy couter-attacked."

Page 91 of the SW codex

Not the lexicum my friend. Sounds like they were ALREADY fighting.

Here here! Swiflord ! good find !

Russ didn't start "the fight" Russ held Lion accountable for his poor decision and risking Russ' men. If I were Russ I'd pop Lion one too if his decisions got my men killed.

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SwiftLord14 wrote: "Space wolves fighting along side the Dark Angels when suddenly without warning El 'Johnson broke ranks. The Space Wolves flanks were unprotected and many warriors were slain when the enemy couter-attacked."

Page 91 of the SW codex

Not the lexicum my friend. Sounds like they were ALREADY fighting.

Both accounts are prefaced as legends, so neither is reliable. For the record, this is what it says in Codex Dark Angels, p 20:

It was on the world of Dulan where the Space Wolves were fighting alongside the Dark Angels that matters came to a head. The Tyrant Durath had personally insulted the Emperor, sacrificing thousands of Imperial priests to his patron Daemon, and both Russ and Jonson desired the honour of slaying this heretic. The headstrong Primarch of the Space Wolves flew into a rage when Durath proclaimed that Russ was the Emperor's lap dog and would be fed to his pet grox [lulz].

Russ swore that he would cut Durath's head from his shoulders and demanded that the Dark Angels allow him to lead his Space Wolves in an immediate assault upon the Tyrant's Crimson Fortress. Jonson had spent days scouting the weak points of the fortress, meticulously planning the attack and was not about to let some hot-headed barbarian ruin his carefully laid plans. He refused Russ's demand and began the assault, storming the fortress with remarkably few casualties.

Russ, caught in a swirling combat at the base of the wall, could only howl in anger as he watched Jonson slay Durath high on the walls of the keep.

So from the Dark Angels description, it sounds like the typical Russ: headstrong, impulsive, and ever eager to get in a fight with his siblings. Maybe the Emperor should have skipped the leash, and gone straight to the choke-collar.

Of course, from the Space Wolves description, we get the typical Lion: treacherous and only concerned with his own glory.

Both of these Primarchs are bottom of the barrel.

So according to the Dark Angels own codex LION first.
1. scoffed at his skills and looked down their noses at the "barbarians"
2. Rather than let Russ defend/prove himself agains Durath's slander honorably (by pushing the attack and wining) . the Lion tried to beat him to the punch to look like the hero ( disshonorable again) and
3. thus broke rank and got Russ' men killed.

Yeah if Lion got in my way of letting me prove my defend my honor and got a bunch of my men killed. I'd pop Lion in the mouth too or a lot worse. Russ may have punched first but according to that Dark Angels own codex Lion deserved it.
And the fact that after all that the lion still "realized how silly it was" YES iproxtaco I stand by my words "enlightened" .

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Russ didn't start crap ! he tried to finish it.
But again his greater wisdom got the best of him and when he lowered his gaurd in laughter Lion sucker punched.

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Oh and BTW Grey Elder. "he meant to do that" all apart of the plan ! lolz

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PSSSSSSS>
Although a long time 40k Video game fan (played the original Space hulks Gene Stealers game for the NES in 1996) I am new to the table top and 40k lore. So I may not be versed enough i admit that .. .but I will say from first read it seems kind a sad and wrong that Russ shows loyalty to the Emperor (his father) and gets called "a lap dog" probably from a jealous man as well. Then on top of that .. his own brother views him as a barbarian and gets in Russ' way of proving his honor and on top of that gets Russ' men killed. Well how would you like to be raised by wolfs. Not as fun as your cushy shelterd palace there "LION". I don't know the lion's story on how he grew up but I bet Russ had it rougher being found in the woods raised by wolfs (sounds Roman/Romulus Ramus to me ). .. IDK imo poor old Russ is getting the bone and kicked around "like a dog" more than he deserves. I think people fail to see his true power and intellegence just because of his rough exterior and unpolished nature. To me that doesn't make him any less cuning or intellegent. Infact, to me that makes the Lion and others less intellegent for jumping to conclusions and underestemating someone based on apperances. Also, Sounds like Lion is a jealous brother and along with others won't give the Dog his due .. peace thanks all for replies I"m learning more and more and community is fun and great peace.

This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2011/07/22 03:42:01

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