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Ancestor curse of vanishing

Strategy and General Discussion
Moderated by Yeebaagooon

Playing as Pose, i'm wondering if I should go Aphrodite for Divine Blood + Curse, or Dionysus for Bronze.

How effective is Curse, really?

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Seems to be a mildly useful power, either for defense or offense. Curse a bunch of troops and all of a sudden you may have a local military advantage. At the right time that could be devastating. May not be one of the great ones, but it certainely doesn't suck.

I do consider it to be the most insulting god power. My mighty warriors turned into pigs and led away to be eaten. How ignoble

I find curse works good on a group of vills mining gold. Some time the enemy might not notice if u r lucky.

Curse is as powerful as Ancestor(No eclipse one) or say even stronger since ancestor can be countered.

Curse is as powerful as Ancestor(No eclipse one) or say even stronger since ancestor can be countered.

ROFL curse is not that strong. it does about 10 units. helps wins some battles but not a game turner like ancestors

Do some math before you laugh.
say both side have a 30 units army.

The effect of curse will bring the army force from 30:30 to 30:22.It's like 1.36:1 .

The effect of ancestor will bring the army force from 30:30 to 43:30.It's like 1.43:1.

If the original units are 20:20,the result is also about same,will be 20:12 and 33:20.It's like 1.67:1 and 1.65:1 .

If no microcontrol happened,the result will be almost same after the battle is over.
But Ancestor can be countered by ceasefire,frost.And even you have no god power for that.you can let your army run away.If you are lucky,you will lose only 1 or 2 units.

Based on these figures,curse is like as strong as ancestor.Ancestor has little advantage,but it can be countered.Cursed soldier wont be back after 40 second.minions will disappear.
Ancestor+ Eclipse will be another story.

Nice analysis. So true too. I don't think many people think of the fact that when you use curse, not only are you eliminating soldiers, but you're going to be able to kill more of the remaining soldiers.

So if you went head to head 30 to 30 units, you're going to kill a lot less of your enemies units, than if it were a 30 to 22 unit battle.

As goodbaby said, think before you laugh.

it ezact stats are

450-675 hp for military units
250-450 hp for civilians
Base damage percent for villagers 25%
base damage percent for units 40%

That means if u have units with 100 hp 4 to 6 of them are going to die! ancestors can do a lot more damage. if the guy has a army of hips hmmm 3 to 4 of them are going to die. and that isnt even considering upgrades

to top that ancestor can attack buildings curse cant.

and even more ancesotors can be combined with eclipse.

No i think ancesotrs is a lot better than curse

[This message has been edited by Mokon (edited 07-17-2003 @ 03:02 PM).]

It works best vs units with low HP and also damaged units. For example, it's good vs an Egyptian opponent. The other good thing about it is its speed, the units are gone instantly so you have more time do things; with Ancestors or even Lightning Storm the enemy units take several seconds to die and can run away in the meantime.

I don tknow where do you get the HP figures.
As I experienced,my spear+slinger army will always lost 8 units when be cursed.
Camel+CA army will lose 5 or more when be cursed.
Ancestor attack build is true,but what's your army doing?

A minion can do 10 hack damage per second,even all of them attack the building for the whole 40 seconds(which is not to happen since they come out one by one and need walking time and casualty),the total damage they can do to the building is 5200*0.7.Like 3600.It's enough to destroy a TC or a fortress,but is a heroic age god powre destroy a TC/Midgol too much? With a curse,you can do that same thing since you have the army number advatantage.You army will own the smaller sized opponent's army,the siege will knock down a building as fast as minion.

i think Curse is more annoying. After a LONG sequence to get a decent rush, your finally eady. he then Curses your army. God its annoying. Also, witha few heoes Ancestors is nothing

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well i was trying out poseidon and was playing with this 1600 person..i was totally controlling the game i went Aphro and cast Curse in this town..his military and some villes were turned to pigs..and i found out that this person was trying to fight back by building more and now she/he can't build anything lol. accordingly,he/she resigned. and yes Curse is more annoying than Ancestors..or but i still think Bronze is far superior than Curse.

Let's just say that Curse can do things that Ancestors can't and vice versa. Ancestors can kill more than 8 units? Depends on the situation doesn't it? And are they gonna kill them instantly? Nope. What Matei said was true. Are you gonna be able to run away from Curse after it's been cast?

I'm not arguing that Curse is better or as good as Ancestors, but Mokon said Curse is horrible. I don't see how it is horrible at all.

Ancestors allows you to go over your pop limit. Curse will kill your enemies units but as soon as he rebuilds, it's equal again. Ancestors is better imo. Curse rarely kills 8 units. Kills like 5-6 most of the time.

Curse can be cast whenever you want.
Ancestor can be "only" cast when you are attacking if you are smart,and better along with eclipse.

Isn't this about if Curse is a good GP?

[This message has been edited by leandro (edited 07-17-2003 @ 04:03 PM).]

well, ancestors is considered one of the best heroic gps and curse is considered one of the worst so.

many people use it on cavalry/infantry! DON'T. u have to use it on archers if u can to let ur infantry or whatever do some dmg. and yes, don't use it at the beginning of the battle, use it 1/2 way through the battle so more troops vanish. seriously, i've pigged around 12 units b4. then, u mop up the couple left-overs and proceed onwards to enemy econ. can be especially deadly as hades combined with an effective use of pestilence or restoration.

seen this in a game of pgfire vs. exhope. fire pigged hope's army and then pestilenced hope's military buildings. allowed fire to win the game.

Curse is a decent, but not necessarily great god power. It's generally weaker than other heroic god powers. Main thing to remember is that Aphrodite comes with much better myth techs than most other heroic gods - boosting a player's economy in pretty much every way.

Curse is, as far as I know, based on the hit points of the units it hits - though villagers are an exception, it seems. If you target slingers or axemen, you'll get a lot. If you target hippikons, jarls, or a war elephant (god forbid), you'll get only a few pigs - maybe even just one if it used to have a trunk. The nifty thing about curse isn't just that it wins battles - it sort of does that. Numbers of units have a very important effect on the overall outcome of most battles - if you both have 30 units, it's a draw - if it's 28 vs 30, the 30 will win with a significantly bigger margin than just 2 units remaining. That's the theorethical margin for curse - if you can force an enemy into battle and then use curse, it's a great power. Of course, he'll usually be able to retreat anyway, or use another god power to counter.

Curse is one of a few god powers prior to mythic that instantly kills or injures units. Bolt, lightning storm, tornado are the most similar powers in this regard. Curse is unique, however, in that it has an economic aspect. If used as part of a fairly fast heroic, it can be used to delay farming for a bit if you can get the pigs - which makes your economy just that little bit better along with the myth techs you can get.

Overall, though, Curse isn't very good by itself. It's very good when you look at the full package that Aphrodite offers, however. She's got a lot of great attributes that almost anyone can appreciate.

Since it's been mentioned, by comparison, ancestors is a far superior god power to curse. Ancestors generally kills at least as many units as curse by itself, usually more, and also provides a very powerful meat shield, protecting your own normal units in the process. Ancestors is pretty much downright overpowered. Nephthys, however, doesn't have nearly as good myth techs as Aphrodite does in terms of general applicability. The best one in general is the one that makes priests cheaper and doubles their healing rate - Spirit of Maat. The others are so-so. One goes very well with Son of Osiris, if you can get that. Generally, though, ancestors is far superior to curse, and pretty overpowered. On a map like mediterraean, it can be especially bad. Ancestors needs a nerf - the best would be if it produced fewer minions early in the game, and more later. Like six or seven if cast at 7:00, going up from there, by like one a minute.

Edit: To answer the original question, I think either god can be a fine choice for Poseidon in heroic. A lot would depend on the circumstances. If your enemy has a god with a hard time countering cavalry - or went with a god path that put him in a position where he doesn't get the proper myth techs for it, and the map is a good map for cavalry (fairly open) then Dionysus is a better choice. On closed maps or against civs that counter cavalry well, Aphrodite is a better choice for Poseidon. Aphrodite is also a better choice if you sense that the game will go on for a long time.

[This message has been edited by Mark_Aurel (edited 07-17-2003 @ 04:37 PM).]

Thanks guys, i was also wondering if I should get Divine Blood straight away, it seems to help the economy a lot!

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« . • ° ¤ S c e n a r i o D e s i g n e r | W o a d C r e a t i o n s ¤ º • . _»

Since it's been mentioned, by comparison, ancestors is a far superior god power to curse. Ancestors generally kills at least as many units as curse by itself, usually more, and also provides a very powerful meat shield, protecting your own normal units in the process. Ancestors is pretty much downright overpowered. Nephthys, however, doesn't have nearly as good myth techs as Aphrodite does in terms of general applicability. The best one in general is the one that makes priests cheaper and doubles their healing rate - Spirit of Maat. The others are so-so. One goes very well with Son of Osiris, if you can get that. Generally, though, ancestors is far superior to curse, and pretty overpowered. On a map like mediterraean, it can be especially bad. Ancestors needs a nerf - the best would be if it produced fewer minions early in the game, and more later. Like six or seven if cast at 7:00, going up from there, by like one a minute.

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