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Me too, my players were resistant at first, i held my ground on not adjusting it and eventually they got over it and like it too. Overall I think its a good system that works just fine, but since its already present and very well supported, I wouldn't mind seeing some alternatives in place as well-- which is what I'm hoping they're going to have in this book.

Like, Shadow magic would explain how this use illusion to create quasi real things, gives a Shadow Magic template that you could give to creatures, with a couple of powers you can choose to give them power over shadow, with explanation to alter some of their normal abilities to give them a shadow magic flavor, and extra feats for the APG s Shadowdancer. Overall I think its a good system that works just fine, but since its already present and very well supported, I wouldn t mind seeing some alternatives in place as well-- which is what I m hoping they re going to have in this book.

** One of the standout characteristics of this beer is its aroma. As soon as you crack open a can, you are hit with the enticing scent of hops and citrus, which immediately piques your interest. With each sip, the flavors burst onto your palate, leaving you craving more.

Pathfinder Secrets of Magic

Discover the untold potential of magic! Secrets of Magic, the newest hardcover rulebook for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Secrets of Magic brings the popular magus and summoner classes into Pathfinder Second Edition, unlocking heroes who combine magical might with martial prowess and offering command of a powerful magical companion creature. The lavishly illustrated, 256-page rulebook contains hundreds of new spells with potent offerings for all spellcasting character classes, magic items for any player character, and lore detailing the fundamental structure and theories of magic. A special section within the volume—the Book of Unlimited Magic—presents new methods of spellcasting, with elementalism, geomancy, shadow magic, rune magic, and even pervasive magic to give every place and creature in your game a magical spin!

Written by Logan Bonner, Mark Seifter, and Amirali Attar Olyaee, Kate Baker, Minty Belmont, Logan Bonner, James Case, Jessica Catalan, John Compton, Katina Davis, Jesse Decker, Chris Eng, Eleanor Ferron, Leo Glass, Joan Hong, Vanessa Hoskins, Jason Keeley, Joshua Kim, Luis Loza, Ron Lundeen, Liane Merciel, David N. Ross, Ianara Natividad, Chesley Oxendine, Stephen Radney‑MacFarland, Shiv Ramdas, Mikhail Rekun, Simone D. Sallé, Michael Sayre, Mark Seifter, Sen H.H.S., Shay Snow, Kendra Leigh Speedling, Tan Shao Han, Calliope Lee Taylor, Mari Tokuda, Jason Tondro, Clark Valentine, Ruvaid Virk, Andrew White, Landon Winkler, Tonya Woldridge, and Isis Wozniakowska

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Excellent Book

This is my favorite book released recently. Great lore sections on magic, lots of interesting spells and items. Both the Magus and the Summoner are great new classes that cover territory not previously explored.

Great book! love the updates!

Really good book but without errata, so don't recommend

Horizon Thunder sphere and Sin Magic are the best here.

The only reason this isn't 1 star is due to the Lore and art, both superb and the few spells feats that are actually useful.

Instead of fixing Witch and/or spell attacks as a whole, there is a lot added that isn't even comparably good compared to what has been added between the CRB and other first party material.

The disappointment here was agonizing.

Announced for July! Product image and description are not final and may be subject to change.

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Announced for July! Product image and description are not final and may be subject to change.

Awesome! I cannot wait for this! Magus was always my #1 favorite choice for a class to play and Summoner was my secondary choice, tied only with Alchemist. I will finally be able to play what I have really wanted to the most since the first announcement of 2nd edition.

New Summoner iconic is not Balthazar! Noooo! First Alhazra, now Balthazar! Funky Hats Club loses another!

C'mon, Imrijka, only you can save us!

Huh, pink with ice blue. And Seltiyel seems to have changed his color scheme to be less dark blue

But yeah, if somebody can actually be like "Oh yeah, that tentacle monster there isn't actually a generic tentacle monster, its a/an [x]" then I'll be really surprised somebody can tell what it is :D

Wait and see what we get for the revised 2 new classes, should be interesting though. More magic items and spells are the bigger deal for me.
I wonder when we will get the new original classes talked about (more like hinted at in various twitch streams when asked point blank)

Maybe the next book after this perhaps??

But yeah, if somebody can actually be like "Oh yeah, that tentacle monster there isn't actually a generic tentacle monster, its a/an [x]" then I'll be really surprised somebody can tell what it is :D

Between the spikey tentacle and the mouth, my though is Chaos Beast. Shoggoth is also a possibility.

This is probably the most excited ive been for any book since the core rulebook.

I wish I had this already.

Looks like a great release. Interesting to see that this is being released in 3 different print formats right out of the gate. clearly the pocket editions are proving to be a solid channel for Paizo.

I really, really can't wait to find out what that Book of Unlimited Magic is all about. The teased bits from there seem wildly different to normal Pathfinder operations!

I really, really can't wait to find out what that Book of Unlimited Magic is all about. The teased bits from there seem wildly different to normal Pathfinder operations!

They talked about it a bit at GenCon, at least the philosophy behind it, and I can’t wait to see what’s in it. Just the names sounds very interesting. :3

Yeah I wonder if this is the thing they were referring to when they said "Yes" to having something to 'address' vancian magic. I'm super duper down, my players and I are the type to eat this kinda stuff up, and it sounds like something even 1e didn't really do. Gonna temper expectations because they haven't explained yet, but it almost sounds like alternative magic systems you can archetype or feat into, and that can be splashed onto monsters.

Looking forward to it! Great cover

A special section within the volume—the Book of Unlimited Magic—presents new methods of spellcasting, with elementalism, geomancy, shadow magic, rune magic, and even pervasive magic to give every place and creature in your game a magical spin!

Very curious about this. Though since there was no playtest for new magic systems, I'm expecting this to be very light.

Hopefully the alternate magic stuff will either be added to in the future or sufficiently future proofed to add to them yourself. SO that those that use them can continue to do so, unlike the words of power for PF1 that was never mentioned again.

"Ok, who let the Unspeakable Door open?"

Pretty awesome cover! :D

I'm hoping to see some 5th edition style spell prep in the alternative rules. The current rules for me are the one thing holding back the level of versatility and flexibility that 2e pathfinder spell casting can do.

More "Prepare or know X number of spells a day and cast at any spell slot applicable"

Less "Prepare each spell slot with a specific spells or only know select spell levels of a spell and let a DM curve ball knock you off guard"

"Ok, who let the Unspeakable Door open?"

Pretty awesome cover! :D

No that's the Doorway of 2020, and all the horrors we have faced! If they don't close that door we will only see further Horrors unleashed in 2021!

Note that they never said there was alternative rules.
IMHO, they sound much more like "in-game" magic systems. Like, not "new rules" but using what we have to have more variety.
I expect personally for each kind of magic to have "Explanation of the themes and how it works in world", "Creature templates to add that kind of magic on any creatures, be them monsters or NPCs", and MAYBE "new player archetypes to add these themes to player characters".
Like, Shadow magic would explain how this use illusion to create quasi real things, gives a "Shadow Magic template" that you could give to creatures, with a couple of powers you can choose to give them power over shadow, with explanation to alter some of their normal abilities to give them a "shadow magic" flavor, and extra feats for the APG's Shadowdancer.

Note that they never said there was alternative rules.

IMHO, they sound much more like "in-game" magic systems. Like, not "new rules" but using what we have to have more variety.
I expect personally for each kind of magic to have "Explanation of the themes and how it works in world", "Creature templates to add that kind of magic on any creatures, be them monsters or NPCs", and MAYBE "new player archetypes to add these themes to player characters".
Like, Shadow magic would explain how this use illusion to create quasi real things, gives a "Shadow Magic template" that you could give to creatures, with a couple of powers you can choose to give them power over shadow, with explanation to alter some of their normal abilities to give them a "shadow magic" flavor, and extra feats for the APG's Shadowdancer.

Tts hard to say, the question they cryptically said "Yes" to at Gen Con Online was: "Will there be anything in the book to address vancian casting?"

Its pretty clear the questioner meant something along the lines of "will this have alternatives for people who don't like vancian spell casting?" and I'm fairly certain the designers recognized that. I'm sure they're also getting a lot of feedback from former 5e players who are frustrated with a lack of neo-vancian casting like they're used to.

So I would be pretty surprised if there wasn't actually any 'alternative spell casting' in this book. I was kind of guessing they might do a class archetype for the Wizard that turns them into an Arcanist, personally.

But who knows, they could do a lot of things.

Note that they never said there was alternative rules.

IMHO, they sound much more like "in-game" magic systems. Like, not "new rules" but using what we have to have more variety.
I expect personally for each kind of magic to have "Explanation of the themes and how it works in world", "Creature templates to add that kind of magic on any creatures, be them monsters or NPCs", and MAYBE "new player archetypes to add these themes to player characters".
Like, Shadow magic would explain how this use illusion to create quasi real things, gives a "Shadow Magic template" that you could give to creatures, with a couple of powers you can choose to give them power over shadow, with explanation to alter some of their normal abilities to give them a "shadow magic" flavor, and extra feats for the APG's Shadowdancer.

Tts hard to say, the question they cryptically said "Yes" to at Gen Con Online was: "Will there be anything in the book to address vancian casting?"

Its pretty clear the questioner meant something along the lines of "will this have alternatives for people who don't like vancian spell casting?" and I'm fairly certain the designers recognized that. I'm sure they're also getting a lot of feedback from former 5e players who are frustrated with a lack of neo-vancian casting like they're used to.

So I would be pretty surprised if there wasn't actually any 'alternative spell casting' in this book. I was kind of guessing they might do a class archetype for the Wizard that turns them into an Arcanist, personally.

But who knows, they could do a lot of things.

It's a shame that there's such a backlash against the semi-Vancian casting styles in Pathfinder. Honestly both myself as GM and the players at my tables who have rolled up casters have all come to enjoy it much more than the generic stuff in 5e.

Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I've never really liked the "spell slots" approach. It seems too contrived*. The most elegant system, to me, is something like Harnmaster's: every spell is a skill, your mastery of that skill (a number between roughly 0 and something a bit over 100) defines how good you are at casting the spell; casting a spell makes you tired; when you get too tired, your spells start to misfire; misfire is bad.

* this is especially true with the two classes in this book, where you only have slots in your two highest spell levels, any you used to have in lower levels disappear when you gain levels. That's almost as bad as "once you cast a spell you forget how to cast it until you get a good night's sleep", which is just plain silly IMO.

I've never really liked the "spell slots" approach. It seems too contrived*. The most elegant system, to me, is something like Harnmaster's: every spell is a skill, your mastery of that skill (a number between roughly 0 and something a bit over 100) defines how good you are at casting the spell; casting a spell makes you tired; when you get too tired, your spells start to misfire; misfire is bad.

* this is especially true with the two classes in this book, where you only have slots in your two highest spell levels, any you used to have in lower levels disappear when you gain levels. That's almost as bad as "once you cast a spell you forget how to cast it until you get a good night's sleep", which is just plain silly IMO.

Hm, sure. I haven't found spell slots, spells known, or any of that too hard to explain in ways my players find logical and not gamey. But like a lot of fantasy and fantasy gaming, the deeper you dig, the sillier it all looks.

Huh, pink with ice blue. And Seltiyel seems to have changed his color scheme to be less dark blue

But yeah, if somebody can actually be like "Oh yeah, that tentacle monster there isn't actually a generic tentacle monster, its a/an [x]" then I'll be really surprised somebody can tell what it is :D

Is there more than one creature there beside the tentacle thing? The horned thing reminds me of a nightgaunt. But it seems like something from a different plane. Or a nightmare fuel Otyugh :P

Note that they never said there was alternative rules.

IMHO, they sound much more like "in-game" magic systems. Like, not "new rules" but using what we have to have more variety.
I expect personally for each kind of magic to have "Explanation of the themes and how it works in world", "Creature templates to add that kind of magic on any creatures, be them monsters or NPCs", and MAYBE "new player archetypes to add these themes to player characters".
Like, Shadow magic would explain how this use illusion to create quasi real things, gives a "Shadow Magic template" that you could give to creatures, with a couple of powers you can choose to give them power over shadow, with explanation to alter some of their normal abilities to give them a "shadow magic" flavor, and extra feats for the APG's Shadowdancer.

Tts hard to say, the question they cryptically said "Yes" to at Gen Con Online was: "Will there be anything in the book to address vancian casting?"

Its pretty clear the questioner meant something along the lines of "will this have alternatives for people who don't like vancian spell casting?" and I'm fairly certain the designers recognized that. I'm sure they're also getting a lot of feedback from former 5e players who are frustrated with a lack of neo-vancian casting like they're used to.

So I would be pretty surprised if there wasn't actually any 'alternative spell casting' in this book. I was kind of guessing they might do a class archetype for the Wizard that turns them into an Arcanist, personally.

But who knows, they could do a lot of things. It's a shame that there's such a backlash against the semi-Vancian casting styles in Pathfinder. Honestly both myself as GM and the players at my tables who have rolled up casters have all come to enjoy it much more than the generic stuff in 5e.

Me too, my players were resistant at first, i held my ground on not adjusting it and eventually they got over it and like it too. Overall I think its a good system that works just fine, but since its already present and very well supported, I wouldn't mind seeing some alternatives in place as well-- which is what I'm hoping they're going to have in this book.

But who knows, they could do a lot of things. It's a shame that there's such a backlash against the semi-Vancian casting styles in Pathfinder. Honestly both myself as GM and the players at my tables who have rolled up casters have all come to enjoy it much more than the generic stuff in 5e.

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The Spellbinding History of Tantalizing Magical Tantalizing IPA