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I know that nowhere it's said I must have a free hand, otherwise it seems quite logic (I cannot access the pouch with my left foot I'd rather tell. ).

On a side note, James Jacob s standing on light shield and having a hand free for casting is that your hands are free for spell casting with a light shield. This may have to do with the fact that somatic weaponry feat was not put in core PF and if you rule that light shields don t have the hand free and you have no access to this feat, it basically makes clerics paladins TWF ranger many fighter mage builds have some rather severe issues.

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How many hands to cast a spell? One should be enough!

Hi, I don't know if this question is too trivial but yesterday my DM announced to me that to cast a spell (I'm a witch) I needed 2 hands free. one for extracting materials and the OTHER to fulfill the somatic prerequisite. I was holding a bow (I'm an elf) and wanted to cast without throwing it to the ground.
In my mind I just needed one hand free to cover both the material and somatic tasks.
Am I so wrong?

Nah, you're cool. You need to be able to gesture if it has a somatic
component (Core p.206).

You only need one hand to gesture.

*edit* hold the bow in one hand while casting and then re-grip the bow (free action) with both hands to shoot.

Yes you are right.
One hand is enough. Otherwise the Cleric would have a very hard time in combat.

Thanks,
anyway the question that comes to my mind now is: the feat still spell allow you to avoid the somatic component but you still need a hand free to get your materials from your pouch. this means that you always need a hand to cast a spell. and the conclusion is that to avoid using hands to cast imply necessarily 2 feats: still spell and eschew materials, right?

The rules don't say that you need a free hand for using Material components.

Unless your DM's unduly harsh there's no reason you can't retrieve the material components and perform the somatic components with one hand. Core p.184:"Unless these components are elaborate, preparing them is a free action".

This is backed up when you look at what happens when you try to cast whilst grappled:
"Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell" (p.201)

This is repeated under Somatic on p.213.

In fact, nowhere does it say that you must have an extra hand (on top of one hand to perform the somatic comp.) to access your component pouch whilst casting.

The rules don't say that you need a free hand for using Material components.

I know that nowhere it's said I must have a free hand, otherwise it seems quite logic (I cannot access the pouch with my left foot I'd rather tell. ).

Are you suggesting something like I can extract things with the power of the mind?

All right, I'm the GM in question and, after re-reading the rules for casting, I found out that I was effectively wrong.

This is what I found on the 3.5 'Rules of the Game' essay regarding this specific case:

"Somatic (S): You must have at least one hand free to complete a somatic component.
The rules don't go into any detail about when you have a hand "free," but here are some general guidelines.
Your hand is free when you aren't carrying a weapon, a piece of equipment, or (usually) a shield. You can strap a buckler to your arm and use your hand to wield a weapon (albeit at a penalty), so there's no reason you couldn't use your buckler hand for a somatic component. The buckler might interfere a little bit, but that's what the arcane spell failure chance for the buckler is for. You also can strap a light shield to your forearm and still carry items in that hand, but you can't use the hand for anything else (such as wielding a weapon), so there's no good reason you should be able to use that hand to complete a somatic component. Since manipulating a material component (including a focus) is part of casting the spell, it's best to consider the hand that holds the material component or focus as "free" for purposes of completing a somatic component."

I basically mixed up the rules for 'casting with Weapon in one hand and Shield (not Buckler) in the other' (which is not allowed for spells with a somatic component) and the Material Component/Focus thing.

To Herr Malthus: you know that if I'm wrong I have no qualms to admit it :D .

The rules don't say that you need a free hand for using Material components.

I know that nowhere it's said I must have a free hand, otherwise it seems quite logic (I cannot access the pouch with my left foot I'd rather tell. ).

Are you suggesting something like I can extract things with the power of the mind?

Logic and D&D do not mix. My favourite two examples: falling rules and casting lightning bolt underwater.

To Herr Malthus: you know that if I'm wrong I have no qualms to admit it :D .

No offense meant.

I just needed a little bit of support since I wasn't sure.
So, when I take the still spell feat will you allow me to be manacled and cast my spells?

To Herr Malthus: you know that if I'm wrong I have no qualms to admit it :D .

No offense meant.

I just needed a little bit of support since I wasn't sure.
So, when I take the still spell feat will you allow me to be manacled and cast my spells?

Grappled or Pinned (or Tied Up through a Rope, which is a rule PER SE), you have to make a Concentration check.

PRD -> Glossary:
"In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell."
"A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell."

PRD -> Combat -> Combat Maneuvers -> Grapple:
"Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD)."

Now, however, I challenge you to ask your questions regarding rules on Stealth for your Familiar ZUUL on this thread (this is merely one of the most recent ones, BTW). You will find that my reading of the rules on this subject are more than lenient !

To Herr Malthus: you know that if I'm wrong I have no qualms to admit it :D .

No offense meant.

I just needed a little bit of support since I wasn't sure.
So, when I take the still spell feat will you allow me to be manacled and cast my spells?

It's the mark of a good GM that his/her players fully expect to be manacled in the future. ;D

To Herr Malthus: you know that if I'm wrong I have no qualms to admit it :D .

No offense meant.

I just needed a little bit of support since I wasn't sure.
So, when I take the still spell feat will you allow me to be manacled and cast my spells? It's the mark of a good GM that his/her players fully expect to be manacled in the future. ;D

Ahahahahah! Nah, merely the fact that he knows he's playing a very naughty Witch, and the Paladin - who only NOW has fully realized she is Eeevil (too few HD to 'ping out' before, only yesterday they reached 5th level) - is a little pissed off after he made sex with her ;D

(. and luckily he never realized he was Charmed to lay with her - not that it would have been an unpleasant thing to do, trust me. she is a hottie, after all ! - , or we would had a REAL nasty situation on our hands. )

Or maybe he is referring when she was Charmed herself and tried to free a 'poor, lonely Demon' only to be gaggled and put unconscious by the 'Wrestle-machine' Monk.

The rules don't say that you need a free hand for using Material components.

I know that nowhere it's said I must have a free hand, otherwise it seems quite logic (I cannot access the pouch with my left foot I'd rather tell. ).

Are you suggesting something like I can extract things with the power of the mind?

My usual thought is that a somatic component for fireball (for instance) involves waving around a pellet of bat guano and then hurling it at the enemy. So using the material component is part of the somatic component.

I always ruled that a caster smears his hand with bat guano . PCs love me for that ^-^

The rules don't say that you need a free hand for using Material components.

I know that nowhere it's said I must have a free hand, otherwise it seems quite logic (I cannot access the pouch with my left foot I'd rather tell. ).

Are you suggesting something like I can extract things with the power of the mind? My usual thought is that a somatic component for fireball (for instance) involves waving around a pellet of bat guano and then hurling it at the enemy. So using the material component is part of the somatic component.

Question for you: if I have the still spell feat and not eschew materials, how do you reconcile things?

Question for you: if I have the still spell feat and not eschew materials, how do you reconcile things?

Good question. The rules clearly state:

"To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any)."

So if there's no way to get the material component into your hand, I guess Still Spell wouldn't be enough. However, in practice I'd probably be lenient if a player wanted to use Still Spell, considering it's kind of a crappy feat.

On a side note, James Jacob's standing on light shield and having a hand free for casting is that your hands are free for spell casting with a light shield. This may have to do with the fact that somatic weaponry feat was not put in core PF and if you rule that light shields don't have the hand free and you have no access to this feat, it basically makes clerics/paladins/TWF ranger/many fighter mage builds have some rather severe issues. This of course makes the buckler less useful in many cases since you lose the buckler AC when casting a spell in PF. but not so with the shield.

Quite frankly, this area of PF is all kinds of messed up. the old 3.5 ruling of shields and porting over something like the somatic weaponry feat would have been much better.

On a side note, James Jacob's standing on light shield and having a hand free for casting is that your hands are free for spell casting with a light shield. This may have to do with the fact that somatic weaponry feat was not put in core PF and if you rule that light shields don't have the hand free and you have no access to this feat, it basically makes clerics/paladins/TWF ranger/many fighter mage builds have some rather severe issues. This of course makes the buckler less useful in many cases since you lose the buckler AC when casting a spell in PF. but not so with the shield.

Quite frankly, this area of PF is all kinds of messed up. the old 3.5 ruling of shields and porting over something like the somatic weaponry feat would have been much better.

Well, actually I think that casting with a Light Shield was possible even in 3.5 without the Somatic Weaponry feat, but at the condition of 'swapping' your One-Handed Weapon into the Shield Hand - which could not be used to 'use' the item, but it could be used to 'held' the item, and so you basically could cast with your (now free) Weapon Hand (and, as per RAW, you could still hold components/Focus/Divine Focus with the same hand. which I forgot in the first place, and so this thread came to be).

PRD -> Equipment:
"Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it."

On a side note, James Jacob's standing on light shield and having a hand free for casting is that your hands are free for spell casting with a light shield. This may have to do with the fact that somatic weaponry feat was not put in core PF and if you rule that light shields don't have the hand free and you have no access to this feat, it basically makes clerics/paladins/TWF ranger/many fighter mage builds have some rather severe issues. This of course makes the buckler less useful in many cases since you lose the buckler AC when casting a spell in PF. but not so with the shield.

Quite frankly, this area of PF is all kinds of messed up. the old 3.5 ruling of shields and porting over something like the somatic weaponry feat would have been much better.

Well, actually I think that casting with a Light Shield was possible even in 3.5 without the Somatic Weaponry feat, but at the condition of 'swapping' your One-Handed Weapon into the Shield Hand - which could not be used to 'use' the item, but it could be used to 'held' the item, and so you basically could cast with your (now free) Weapon Hand (and, as per RAW, you could still hold components/Focus/Divine Focus with the same hand. which I forgot in the first place, and so this thread came to be).

PRD -> Equipment:
"Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it."

If you follow the 3.5 convention (since PF doesn't have it clarified yet), swapping in that manner is a move action. Swapping it back is also a move action. quick draw does not help with either of these motion. That means you can cast a spell by effctively disarming yourself. Which for character like a paladin or a mellee cleric or a fighter/mage is a HORRIBLE thing to do. which is why somatice weaponry was made. and which is why that feat should have been a PF core feat. I mean honestly the TWF ranger is STILL boned as they have to actually sheathe a weapon so they draw an AoO.

Somatic and material components are different stuff.

Having somatic components implies that you need a free hand to gesture, furthermore you suffer arcane spell failure chances when wearing armor.

You still need to retrieve material components (if any), and you need a free hand to do so (your hand is free when using ligth shields and bluckers, not heavy shields or weapons. However if you use two-handed weapons, you can hold it with just one hand-free action, while you cast the spell with the other hand). The same hand used to perform the somatic components can be used to retrieve the material component from your component pouch. There are some articles written by Skip Williams in the Wizards of the Coast site that explain the issue, but what happens when grappled is a good example (page 206 of pathfinder - casting spells).

If you don't need somatic components, you don't suffer armor and shield arcane spell failure, but you still need a free hand to retrieve the material component. It's never an issue, unless you are grappling or your are using a heavy shield or a tower shield.

Somatic and material components are different stuff.

Having somatic components implies that you need a free hand to gesture, furthermore you suffer arcane spell failure chances when wearing armor.

You still need to retrieve material components (if any), and you need a free hand to do so (your hand is free when using ligth shields and bluckers, not heavy shields or weapons. However if you use two-handed weapons, you can hold it with just one hand-free action, while you cast the spell with the other hand). The same hand used to perform the somatic components can be used to retrieve the material component from your component pouch. There are some articles written by Skip Williams in the Wizards of the Coast site that explain the issue, but what happens when grappled is a good example (page 206 of pathfinder - casting spells).

If you don't need somatic components, you don't suffer armor and shield arcane spell failure, but you still need a free hand to retrieve the material component. It's never an issue, unless you are grappling or your are using a heavy shield or a tower shield.

I strongly agree about everything you said.

Thanks to everybody, my doubts are dissolved.

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All right, I'm the GM in question and, after re-reading the rules for casting, I found out that I was effectively wrong.

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