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Another variant of this spell was slingstar, which allowed a mage to imbue her or his sling with magical energy. The caster evoked a number of magic missiles by using small stones or bullets as an added material component. [26]

It gives you a more accurate answer and doesn t waste time with people wondering what system you re talking about or giving answers for a different system or reading your post if they re really not interested in that RPG system. My best argument that magic missiles are not homing missiles and cannot fly around corners is that if they could, a Shield spell would not be an effective defense.

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Can magic missiles shoot around corners?

Specifically, if a wizard sees an enemy through scrying or other indirect means, could he hit him with a magic missile even if it must navigate around corners?

Bonedagger

First Post

The question could be if you can target a creature/person with a "Target" spell (e. g. Magic Missile, Charm Person, Dominate Person etc.) if you are detecting the target through divination, and if the target is within range of a unblocked parth.

. I would say yes. But spells have limited range and often the unblocked path is much longer than the actually distance.

Kraedin

First Post

Bonedagger

First Post

Well. Yes. But the question is if they took into account that certain spells allows you to look around corners. In the case of selfguiding spells you must assume that they are able to change direction in midair. Otherwise they wouldn't have a 100 % hit chance.

In the case of a fireball that need to be targeted at a certain area a straight-path line of effect makes sense.

Kraedin

First Post

Line of effect rules apply, clairvoyance or no. The ability to see the proposed target is immaterial.

PHB, pg. 150 A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can effect. [y]ou must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect.

Bonedagger

First Post

Line of effect rules apply, clairvoyance or no. The ability to see the proposed target is immaterial.

The question is if that apply to selfguiding spells like MM. It certainly doesn't apply to the spell Clairvoyance.

(It only says that you must be able to see or touch the target)

Bonedagger

First Post

Kraedin

First Post

Magic Missile includes no text that supercedes the general LOE rule. It still applies. Clairvoyance does include text that supercedes the general LOE rule, so it doesn't apply to that spell.

Bonedagger

First Post

Lela

First Post

Under the same argument presented above I could set up a serries of Mirrors that would allow me to Magic Missile, Charm Person, and Dominate Person around corners (and other areas). I don't see this working.

This also leeds into the Rays bouncing off mirrors argument (which I also believe doesn't happen in magic).

Kraedin

First Post

PHB, pg. 148 Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect (such as conjuring a monster). You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast, such as a the central point of a ireball. For bursts, cones, cylinders, and emanating spells, the spell only affects areas, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a burst's point, a cone's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanating spell's point of origin).

You'll note that in the LOE text, it talks about spells with targets, spells with effects, and spells with areas. It also give the specific example of fireball and a "conjured" (presumably summoned or called) monster. Fireball is an Area spell, and Summon Monster is an Effect spell, yet both of these must follow LOE rules. So too must Target spells, a category which includes magic missle.

EDIT: Hey, Bonedagger, you removed the post that this was a reply to, and know it seems rather nonsensical. You can't do that to my posts!

Bonedagger

First Post

Clairvoyance does include text that supercedes the general LOE rule, so it doesn't apply to that spell.

BTW. Thought "Line of effect" was an aiming definition. Looks like that unless you actually read the text closely.

Oh. Well. I would allow target spells to "hunt" down their targets. It's not like they have that long a range anyway.

Bonedagger

First Post

EDIT: Hey, Bonedagger, you removed the post that this was a reply to, and know it seems rather nonsensical. You can't do that to my posts!

Sorry. I removed it as almost as soon as I had posted it.

I had never read the targetting rules closely. Thought "line of effect" was an aiming definition. I discovered my error as soon as I pressed the submit button.

(So instead there is only Area, Effect and Target). hmm

Alcamtar

Explorer

My best argument that magic missiles are not "homing missiles" and cannot fly around corners is that if they could, a Shield spell would not be an effective defense. Shield is a small disk which moves to intercept attacks, and thus intercepts magic missiles -- therefore they are interceptable. Presumably the reason there is no save is that the missiles are too fast for anything other than magic to possibly intercept. While you could argue that the Shield spell contains text specifically regarding magic missiles, it also has a specific explanation of how it works, so the two must be taken together.

My second argument is that this is a first level spell. It's already one of the most powerful and useful spells in the game, since it always hits, can disrupt enemy spellcasters with no chance of failure, and can damage any creature regardless of immunities. In terms of average damage, at 9th level caster ability it is equal to a 10 dice fireball or lightning bolt if the victim is likely to save, or 21 dice if maximized and empowered (11th level caster). Of course no area of effect, but other advantages more than make up for this.

Allowing it to zip through pinholes or down zigzag pipes and seek targets around corners makes it a very powerful sniping weapon, since it would allow the wizard to basically attack without fear of counterattack.

Allowing it to zip through pinholes or down zigzag pipes and seek targets around corners makes it a very powerful sniping weapon, since it would allow the wizard to basically attack without fear of counterattack.

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