wacky jackz

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D&D 5E Spell Preparation: Leaving Slots Open

I was looking over spell preparation. The way I'm reading it, you can leave slots open and fill them when you might need a spell. You can't change a spell slot until you take a long rest. There is no designated time of day when you have to fill your prepared spell slots. You could for example only memorize 8 slots of 10 after a long rest leaving two slots open, then choose which spells you fill those last two slots with later in the day taking the 1 minute per spell level to pray or study to fill the slot.

Is this how most read it?

Li Shenron

Legend

AFAIK there is no explicit option in 5e to prepare only a partial list of spells, and later prepare the remaining amount.

IIRC it only talks about "preparing your list of spells" and then "changing the list" after a long rest. So normally you just prepare all of it.

BTW, we should get used not to talk in terms of "filling slots" in 5e, because the prepared spell list has nothing to do with the daily slots anymore!

pming

Legend

As Lil Shenron said, plus: When asking about 5e questions, one thing that should one should always keep in mind is that 5e requires DM involvement in many, Many, MANY aspects of character mechanics choices. The DM in 5e is basically a "built in catch-all rule" for everything in the game.

Basically, if a rule can be interpreted in more than one way, it requires DM involvement. In the OP's original question, it is obvious that he is interpreting a "rule" from a "non-stated assumption". In other words, because the rules don't explicitly state something, he is arguing that he can "automatically" do something. In fact, he should interpret that as "Oh, I think normally it is assumed that all spell slots are filled, but maybe not. I guess I should consult the DM" (or, if he is the DM, make a ruling and keep on playing).

For me. in a "Generic" D&D world, I'd say you need to do all or nothing. Sorry, no "filling 8 of 10 slots then waiting to do the rest later in the day". In a different campaign world I may rule differently. This is the beauty of 5e (and older versions, like BECMI). how the 'actual' rules of the game are going to be used/interpreted is up to the individual DM. This allows for a virtually limitless amount of different campaigns, DM's and play styles. Yay! I always hated saying "In my Pathfinder campaign, I restrict paladins to being only human". and then almost instantly getting pounced on by rabid power-gamers, rules lawyers, or "character build optimizer's" about how I was a bad DM, or otherwise "sucked" because I somehow "didn't want players to have any cool, fun stuff".

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

There's nothing that says you have to prepare the list all at once. It doesn't even imply it once you read the text and forget about Pathfinder. In Pathfinder/3E they made a point of a preparing at a specific time of the day for divine casters and the wizard could memorize at different points of the day. They never explicitly stated in those editions you could leave slots open. I believe in this edition you can leave slots open. It gives minutes to memorize, but does not specify time of day. It only gives minutes to memorize. I think you can leave slots open. I think I'm going to allow it. I'd like to know if anyone else has read a ruling that contradicts this anywhere else.

pming

Legend

I think I'm going to allow it. I'd like to know if anyone else has read a ruling that contradicts this anywhere else.

Ruling? Nope. But, to use the same sort of logic. I've never seen an NPC caster stat block that had "blank slots". If having "blank slots" was a possible assumption, I would guess that some NPC somewhere would have had at least one 'blank slot' in their list with a note about something like "He has 1 3rd level slot left that he will prepare something appropriate later on in the day if he needs too". or anything even remotely close to that.

I'd err on the side of "No, not normally allowed". But it's your campaign. If it fits your campaigns "magic feel", go for it! The more unique and varied campaigns out there to talk about the better as far as I'm concerned!

CapnZapp

Legend

Celtavian, it's true it doesn't say you have to prepare the entire list at once. But it is ruleslawery to argue this means "partial preparation" is intended or even permissible by the design team. There would be no rules to tell you how this would be done, a good sign it wasn't meant to happen.

And oh, there are no "slots" involved in preparation.

In the end, if your DM allows partial preparation the answer is "yes". If he or she doesn't, then "no".

But I'm gathering you're the DM, Celtavian; and so I think you're fishing for support for the position that the rules support partial preparation.

And thus my answer becomes:

The 3e style answer: no, the rules doesn't support it. Make it a house rule.

The 5e style answer: the rules doesn't support it, but doesn't explicitly disallow it either. However, that can be said for a zillion rules interpretations. So in the end, if you like it, use it at your game.

mach1.9pants

Hero

"You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available
for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. When
you do so, choose a number of cleric spells equal to your
Wisdom modifier + your cleric level (minimum of one
spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have
spell slots."

The wording implies, to me, that you prepare them at once "When you do so. ". In normal English usage it makes sense for one preparation period. But it is not explicit and if you want to have open slots (& resultant more versatile casters) in your campaign go for it. But RAI, as pointed out in the Sage Advice Compendium, says all at once to me.

But yeah your game go wild!

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth

I don't read it that way, for a couple reasons.

You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. When you do so, choose a number of cleric spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your cleric level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

First, it tells you the number of spells to prepare, the maximum. The minimum of one spell is for a first level caster with a spell casting ability of less than 12. At least that's my interpretation, so no you can't prepare a partial list.

You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of cleric spells requires time spent in prayer and meditation: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

Second, even if you could, I would rule that adding spells to your list is the same as changing your list, so it could only be done after a long rest. The one minute per level is given to clarify how long you need to spend preparing/changing the list, but doesn't change that it can only be done once per day.

pukunui

Legend

During the public playtest, classes that prepared spells each day had the following clause in their class descriptions: "You don’t have to prepare all your spells at once. If you like, you can prepare some later in the day."

I have to admit I was a bit miffed when I got my PHB and saw that those two sentences had been removed. I don't have a problem with doing it that way myself.

On a semi-related note, I've always found the concept of a cleric praying to their deity for magical power ahead of time a bit odd. I think it would make more sense for them to be able to cast any spell from their spell list when they need it. So if a cleric comes across a diseased beggar, he can just pray to his deity to heal the beggar (by casting lesser restoration or whatever) then and there, rather than having to say, "Oh, sorry. I'd love to help you but I can't right now. Maybe tomorrow . "

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

Since there is not yet a definitive ruling anyone can point out. This is interpretation that seems to be different. I see nothing indicating all spells must be filled at once. I'm going to rule in the following fashion:

1. You can leave spell slots open. This makes more sense to me and adds flexibility that I expect with casters. I have seen often in fiction a caster studying, praying, or coming up with a resource in a specific event.

2. Once a spell slot is filled, you cannot change it until a long rest.

3. You must spend the requisite amount of time to pray to fill the slot.

I find this follows the rules as written (perhaps not RAI) and fits well from a fictional standpoint. I like the idea of a priest, druid, or wizard being able to pray or study their book to solve a particular problem during the course of the adventure rather than be locked in after preparing once per day. Since nothing says they can only prepare spells once per long rest, I see no reason to disallow it from a rules standpoint and definitely not a fictional standpoint. In fact, I think it would more interesting from a fictional standpoint to allow a player to fill a slot.

The cleric saying "Let me pray to Sarenrae for the power to alter this stone" versus "My goddess will not allow me to change after I have prayed for spells" is better fiction to me.

I am the DM. I believe I will allow it when I DM. I'll have to run this by the other DM to see if he is good with it when he runs it. I very much like the fiction of being able to leave spell slots open and filling them as needed with prayer or study. I never liked the idea of studying or praying one time a day. Seemed too gamist for my tastes.

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

During the public playtest, classes that prepared spells each day had the following clause in their class descriptions: "You don’t have to prepare all your spells at once. If you like, you can prepare some later in the day."

I have to admit I was a bit miffed when I got my PHB and saw that those two sentences had been removed. I don't have a problem with doing it that way myself.

On a semi-related note, I've always found the concept of a cleric praying to their deity for magical power ahead of time a bit odd. I think it would make more sense for them to be able to cast any spell from their spell list when they need it. So if a cleric comes across a diseased beggar, he can just pray to his deity to heal the beggar (by casting lesser restoration or whatever) then and there, rather than having to say, "Oh, sorry. I'd love to help you but I can't right now. Maybe tomorrow . "

I'm with you, puk. I'm going to run it that way. I may even house rule it if an official rule contradicts the ruling I'm going to use. I find the ability to pray or study throughout the day a much better fictional element during gameplay.

Evenglare

Adventurer

. I'm pretty surprised this is a topic but.

5e doesn't work like 3.x/pathfinder. You don't prepare spell slots at all. In older edition those slots were kind of like empty buckets in which you would put a spell into. For instance if I was a wizards and I prepared magic missile with my level 1 spell slot that was it. When that slot was expended, it cast magic missile. End of story. However in 5th edition spells prepared are completely independent from "slots". In 5e slots are sort of like ranked magic points. Whenever you want to cast a level 1 spell like magic missile you "expend" one of those slots and then magic missile comes out. But that slot itself is not tied directly to magic missile. You could have used that slot for any other level 1 spell.

So to address your question is that I'm pretty sure you have to prepare your entire spell list, there are a couple of reasons for this. First there are no open "slots" to speak of in the list. At least in game terminology, slots are completely different than spells prepared. Second, if you could just partially prepare a list at your leisure then what would be the point of having to prepare them at all? The only possible argument is that they would have to take a minute to prep the spell.. that's almost negligible in the majority of cases during the adventure day. Third it says that to change the list of prepared spells you need to complete a long rest. So if there were some sort of blank prepared slots then to change that you would need to take a long rest.

Finally 4th thing, there has never been ANY precedent to indicate you can have a partial list of prepared spells. This, to my knowledge has never appeared in any version of the core game. It also seems like they would explicitly address that in SOME part of the book but nothing like that is ever mentioned anywhere. Not even a hint of it. The minutes seem to be given for story fluff more than anything.

mach1.9pants

Hero

Yeah it is a perfectly valid way to play, if you want that caster flexibility. As long as your groups on the same page, awesome.

Prism

Explorer

Finally 4th thing, there has never been ANY precedent to indicate you can have a partial list of prepared spells. This, to my knowledge has never appeared in any version of the core game. It also seems like they would explicitly address that in SOME part of the book but nothing like that is ever mentioned anywhere. Not even a hint of it. The minutes seem to be given for story fluff more than anything.

Preparing a partial list was pretty standard for 3rd edition. From the srd for wizards..

'When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots'

. and for divine casters.

'A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once'

Our group did this all the time in 3e. I would follow Celtavians ruling even though the wording doesn't specifically allow it

pukunui

Legend

I'm with you, puk. I'm going to run it that way. I may even house rule it if an official rule contradicts the ruling I'm going to use. I find the ability to pray or study throughout the day a much better fictional element during gameplay.

I think I will do it for my next campaign as well.

You're right that, in technical terms, "slots" are a separate thing from the spells you have prepared. However, you still have a limited number of spells you can prepare each day. You could consider those spaces as "slots" in a sense.

Finally 4th thing, there has never been ANY precedent to indicate you can have a partial list of prepared spells. This, to my knowledge has never appeared in any version of the core game. It also seems like they would explicitly address that in SOME part of the book but nothing like that is ever mentioned anywhere. Not even a hint of it. The minutes seem to be given for story fluff more than anything.

False. As [MENTION=9501]Prism[/MENTION] points out, you need look no further than 3e. Also, please look at my previous post, in which I quoted a section from the D&D 5e playtest allowing you to prepare some of your spells later in the day.

CapnZapp

Legend

Celtavian is certainly free to add this rule to his own game. The only thing you'd think worth debating here is whether there's any official support for such a rule.

But that's an open and shut case: no, the rules does not support it.

What's really left to discuss is the broader issue - how much do the rules need to "explicitly disallow" something for that door to be clearly and unequivocally shut?

And my answer is clear: this assumption is clearly unreasonable. The rules cannot discuss everything they aren't, it would make for a 10000 page rulebook.

Likewise, you shouldn't and you can't hide behind "there's no definite ruling either way yet". The probably never will. And still, it should be clear as day that the rules don't support it and wasn't meant to.

This is where your ruleslawer-fu fails you. This stuff will never be part of 5e.

Back to your original question.

NO most people don't read the rules to allow partial preparation. In fact, the rules say in a reasonably simple language how you're supposed to do it. That is all you get in 5e.

There is no leeway to contort this language. You simply prepare the specified number of spells, and that's it.

This in no way means I'm against your idea of partial preparation. Heck, it might even be a good idea! (not to mention part of the playtest, apparently)

But you're taking a dark path if you can't houserule this without squeezing out some kind of "official support" out of the PHB. Don't go there.

Not only is there no support to be had, but the entire notion is 3e-era thinking that simply won't make you happy in this edition.

Heartfelt wishes,
Zapp

Celtavian

Dragon Lord

. I'm pretty surprised this is a topic but.

5e doesn't work like 3.x/pathfinder. You don't prepare spell slots at all. In older edition those slots were kind of like empty buckets in which you would put a spell into. For instance if I was a wizards and I prepared magic missile with my level 1 spell slot that was it. When that slot was expended, it cast magic missile. End of story. However in 5th edition spells prepared are completely independent from "slots". In 5e slots are sort of like ranked magic points. Whenever you want to cast a level 1 spell like magic missile you "expend" one of those slots and then magic missile comes out. But that slot itself is not tied directly to magic missile. You could have used that slot for any other level 1 spell.

So to address your question is that I'm pretty sure you have to prepare your entire spell list, there are a couple of reasons for this. First there are no open "slots" to speak of in the list. At least in game terminology, slots are completely different than spells prepared. Second, if you could just partially prepare a list at your leisure then what would be the point of having to prepare them at all? The only possible argument is that they would have to take a minute to prep the spell.. that's almost negligible in the majority of cases during the adventure day. Third it says that to change the list of prepared spells you need to complete a long rest. So if there were some sort of blank prepared slots then to change that you would need to take a long rest.

Finally 4th thing, there has never been ANY precedent to indicate you can have a partial list of prepared spells. This, to my knowledge has never appeared in any version of the core game. It also seems like they would explicitly address that in SOME part of the book but nothing like that is ever mentioned anywhere. Not even a hint of it. The minutes seem to be given for story fluff more than anything.

Not really. Add up the minutes. It's a minute per spell level, not a minute per spell. It adds up to quite a lot later on.

By 6th level you have 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd. To prepare your list it takes you 19 minutes a day. Eventually at full spell capacity, you'll take 89 minutes to prepare your spell list per day. I was thinking that is a fairly substantial amount of time of preparation time. I was wondering what if someone attacks you while you're preparing spells for that 90 minutes. Would you not get to memorize spells for the rest of the day? Would you only get to have the spells on your list that you managed to memorize up to that point until you took a long rest? Would you default to your previous list unable to change until the next long rest? How does that work?

What if you level during an adventure? Do you get to fill that open slot immediately or do you have to wait for a long rest?

I decided if I ran it with the possibility of allowing a person to memorize throughout the day, that would completely remove any of my questions. I started to wonder if that was the intent all along. I felt the natural reading of the rule seemed to indicate that allowing a person to prepare a spell on the list throughout the day would work just fine and may very well be intentional because it obviates any problems you might have with memorization/preparation times if you had someone attacked during their prayers or morning study or allow leveling without requiring a long rest.

Just seems like the natural reading of the rule with the time investment involved in preparing a spell list.

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