Consume the witch nincompoop The topic "Consume the witch nincompoop" is certainly an intriguing one. However, it is important to approach it with caution and consideration. The phrase "witch nincompoop" may raise several questions. Does it refer to a literal witch who is also a nincompoop? Or is it a metaphorical representation of someone who is foolish or incompetent? When it comes to the idea of consuming such an individual, one could interpret it in different ways. Does it mean to physically consume them, as in an act of cannibalism? Or does it refer to eliminating their influence or presence in some other manner? It is crucial to note that the concept of witches has been a part of folklore and mythology for centuries. Historically, witches were believed to possess supernatural powers and were often associated with dark magic.
+1. it just makes more sense. for all the reasons listed above. When I first read the witch's casting stat I had to reread it as it just doesn't make sense to me.
I agree - wisdom makes sense for a witch, both thematically and with their spell list straddling the traditional arcane and divine lists, wisdom fits with their divine spells as well. The real problem is that you start seeing solid bonuses on the Wisdom skills hey, I m with the Wis folks on this, like I said with mediocre Knowledges which might become a party hole if you happen to.
Historically, witches were believed to possess supernatural powers and were often associated with dark magic. However, in modern times, the idea of witches has evolved, and they are often depicted as powerful, independent individuals who are in tune with nature and magic. On the other hand, a nincompoop is typically considered to be a foolish or stupid person.
Should the witch be a wisdom-based caster?
So, my group and I have been discussing the witch, and we feel that witch may actually be better suited as a wisdom caster.
Three reasons for this:
1) Wisdom gives the witch a niche. As it stands, not too much separates the witch from the wizard. As another intelligence-based arcane spellcaster, the witch runs the risk of stepping on the wizard's toes if in the same party. Using wisdom would differentiate game play, especially when it comes to skills, between the two classes. Also, the secondary ability score of the witch, as it is for most spellcasters who don't want to die, is dexterity, and, currently, there are few Wis/Dex character classes.
2)Wisdom is atmospheric. I can really imagine the witch being better at skills like sense motive and perception, than he is at spellcraft. It lets the witch be more spooky.
3)Intelligence implies that the witch studied their craft thoroughly like a wizard. However, under the current description of the class, the witch does not have a solid understanding of where his power comes from. Indeed, some witches apparently have no idea. A wisdom-based caster derives his power from the belief that something else is granted him power, which seems more in line with the current description of the witch class.
110% agree with everything you wrote.
I think it would help give the Witch a more distinct niche,
and it seems like it fits the given fluff for how they come to their powers, as well as for Witches in general (real-world mythology wise, nothing about Witch necessarily suggests 'super genius' while Arcane Wizards DO support that association).
I was thinking this too so I agree 100% as well.
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+1. it just makes more sense. for all the reasons listed above. When I first read the witch's casting stat I had to reread it as it just doesn't make sense to me.
Only problem is Wis is generally used for divine spellcasting whilst a Witch is Arcane.
Kevin Mack wrote:Only problem is Wis is generally used for divine spellcasting whilst a Witch is Arcane.
Of course. But why does the Witch care?
Anyhow, there are so many exceptions to these kinds of rules, they're barely 'rules' to begin with:
INT is for arcane casting. Except Sorcerors
CHA is for spontaneous casting. Except Paladins.
WIS is for divine casting. Except Paladins (now)
WIS is for divine casting. Except Archivists
I don't think the game will fall apart if Witches are WIS-based Arcane Casters.
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Kevin Mack wrote:Only problem is Wis is generally used for divine spellcasting whilst a Witch is Arcane.
The same argument could be used for Charisma being Arcane (both Bard and Sorcerer use it), and yet the Oracle, a divine caster, uses Charisma. I don't think that it should be a hard and fast rule that Wisdom equals Divine, just as Charisma does not equal arcane. I think it should depend on the power source of the caster.
sanwah68 wrote: Kevin Mack wrote:Only problem is Wis is generally used for divine spellcasting whilst a Witch is Arcane.
The same argument could be used for Charisma being Arcane (both Bard and Sorcerer use it), and yet the Oracle, a divine caster, uses Charisma. I don't think that it should be a hard and fast rule that Wisdom equals Divine, just as Charisma does not equal arcane. I think it should depend on the power source of the caster.
Just a note In PF a Paladin uses cha for casting spells
Re - Should the witch be a wisdom-based caster? Three reasons for this:
Absolutely right on all three.
Re - I don't think the game will fall apart if Witches are WIS-based Arcane Casters.
Great class along with the Cavalier that I will put in my games immediately.
A witch is a variant of sorcerer.
It might not be exactly the case for the Pathfinder version, at least not yet, but thematically that's still a mystic individual living in remote areas, practicing arcane arts, white and black, occasionally gathering in covens or sabbats with other witches.
In a word : Sorcerer.
In that regards, there is not even a doubt in my mind (and my humble opinion) that it should be an arcane caster, using Charisma as a casting stat.
I just hope the class will be revised accordingly.
And even if it is not, i will houserule it that way.
| JoelF847 RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 | Dec 8, 2009, 06:12 pm |
I was thinking something similar when I first read the Witch, but it slipped my mind until seeing this thread. I agree - wisdom makes sense for a witch, both thematically and with their spell list straddling the traditional arcane and divine lists, wisdom fits with their 'divine' spells as well.
INT and CHA are the stats for arcane magic.
WIS and CHA are the stats for divine magic (see Paladin, Oracle, Favored Soul, Spirit Shaman, and Channel Energy).
I tend to prefer INT and WIS for psionics, myself, for this very reason. It keeps things nice and codified.
John Falter wrote:So, my group and I have been discussing the witch, and we feel that witch may actually be better suited as a wisdom caster.
Pathfinder has been breaking the whole Wis=divine, Int=arcane mold, and I for one am extremely grateful for that.
My ideal would have been for the Witch to have her casting work something along the lines of the 3.5 Spirit Shaman.
She would gain different spells from the Witch spell list day to day, but cast those spells as "known" spells for that day.
Wisdom would dictate how hard her spells where to resist, charisma would determine the number of bonus spells she managed to talk her familiar out of (that's the exact opposite of the Spirit shaman, but it makes more sense at least in my twisted mind).
Of course I see the Witches familiar in the same light as spirits you must coerce into teaching you, rather than the classic Wizards pet who becomes more than the norm via his bond with the wizard.
John Falter wrote:So, my group and I have been discussing the witch, and we feel that witch may actually be better suited as a wisdom caster.
Three reasons for this:
1) Wisdom gives the witch a niche. As it stands, not too much separates the witch from the wizard. As another intelligence-based arcane spellcaster, the witch runs the risk of stepping on the wizard's toes if in the same party. Using wisdom would differentiate game play, especially when it comes to skills, between the two classes. Also, the secondary ability score of the witch, as it is for most spellcasters who don't want to die, is dexterity, and, currently, there are few Wis/Dex character classes.
2)Wisdom is atmospheric. I can really imagine the witch being better at skills like sense motive and perception, than he is at spellcraft. It lets the witch be more spooky.
3)Intelligence implies that the witch studied their craft thoroughly like a wizard. However, under the current description of the class, the witch does not have a solid understanding of where his power comes from. Indeed, some witches apparently have no idea. A wisdom-based caster derives his power from the belief that something else is granted him power, which seems more in line with the current description of the witch class.
1. How do you rebalance skills around an arcane caster if Wisdom is the primary (i.e. likely to start at +3 or more and go upwards of +7 by end game) given (a) the prevalence of good wisdom based skills (Perception, Sense Motive, Heal, and Survival are the only WIS skills, but every one of them is powerful, particularly the first two, which are arguably the most important two skills you can have)? Skills/level changes to what if not 2+int?
2. How do you balance saves and character progression based on a good Will Save progression combined with WIS as the primary stat (i.e. you will never fail a Will save building)? This particularly comes into play when balancing encounters.
What I've found in most games is that the arcane casters are far more likely to stat-jack than Clerics and Druids, largely because saves are more crippling to arcane than divine. Since Clerics and Druids get the 3/4 BAB and can utilize armor, you find a more diverse stat spread (typically) amongst the two of them, particularly with Druids due to Wild Form. Early level divine is so weak in combat compared to early level arcane that you tend to see more swinging/shooting from the divine casters.
This isn't to say that I'm against the motion here. I think it's a decent idea. if you flesh out these major balancing issues and come out with working solutions.
Currently, Witches are balanced skill-wise to expect a +3 minimum on base Int (likely that the character had mediocre rolls and took the +2 to Int race options). A stat-jacked +5 base Int is not unexpected on a level 1 if the player had a lucky roll. The problem is that there are significant balancing issues if you change that to Wis as the base stat. Changing skills to 4+int does not necessarily fix the problem. The real problem is that you start seeing solid bonuses on the Wisdom skills (hey, I'm with the Wis folks on this, like I said) with mediocre Knowledges (which might become a party hole if you happen to. oh, you know, be the only arcane caster). Honestly, I'd be fine with reclassifying the Witch to divine, swapping to Wisdom, and giving Light Armor as long as the skill issue was clarified.
While the term may be used to describe someone lacking in intelligence or competence, it is important to remember that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Labeling someone as a nincompoop without understanding their circumstances or abilities is unfair. With these considerations in mind, it becomes clear that the notion of consuming the witch nincompoop cannot be taken literally. Instead, it is more appropriate to interpret it as a call to address and overcome ignorance, foolishness, or incompetence in ourselves or others. This can be achieved through education, self-reflection, and empathy. In conclusion, while the topic of "consuming the witch nincompoop" may initially seem bizarre or perplexing, a deeper analysis reveals a metaphorical meaning. Rather than promoting harmful or literal actions, it encourages us to confront and eradicate ignorance, foolishness, or incompetence. By doing so, we can strive for personal growth and a more understanding and compassionate society..
Reviews for "From Cauldrons to Cups: Modern Trends in Witch Nincompoop Consumption"
1. Emma - 2 stars - I couldn't get into "Consume the witch nincompoop" at all. The plot felt disjointed and confusing, with too many characters introduced too quickly. The writing style was also a bit jumbled and hard to follow. Overall, I found the book to be a frustrating read that left me feeling unsatisfied.
2. Mark - 1 star - I was disappointed by "Consume the witch nincompoop." The concept seemed interesting, but the execution fell flat for me. The characters were underdeveloped, and the story lacked depth and originality. I found myself struggling to stay engaged and ultimately ended up abandoning the book halfway through.
3. Laura - 2 stars - "Consume the witch nincompoop" was not my cup of tea. The pacing was slow, and the narrative felt overly convoluted. I found it hard to connect with any of the characters, as they lacked depth and their actions often felt inconsistent. While the idea behind the story had potential, the execution left much to be desired.
4. Robert - 3 stars - I had mixed feelings about "Consume the witch nincompoop." While the world-building was intriguing and the author's imagination was evident, the story felt cluttered and lacked a strong central plot. Additionally, the writing style was overly descriptive at times, slowing down the pace of the narrative. Overall, it had its moments, but it wasn't enough to make me thoroughly enjoy the book.