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And that belief leads to the general approach of “ruling at the table and then reviewing the rules later.” We’ve all said that, right? “I’ll make a call now to keep the game moving, and then I’ll check the rules and issue a formal correction later.”

Meanwhile, if the system s rules are just a pile of rules that neither describe a world nor provide a particularly logical play experience, then your own rulings will provide a better experience than going by the book. I don t think anyone here doubts that the second and third approaches are the best because, in the end, as a Game Master, you re trying to provide the best narrative and gameplay experience you can.

By pressing these buttons, children can create music and enjoy listening to their favorite melodies. The device is often adorned with colorful lights and designs, making it visually appealing for children. Some Song Magic Sticks also have additional features such as volume control, rhythm selection, and playback options.

Would detect magic find this?

Just looking for opinions. I am the DM so basically can run it anyway I want but wanted to get a few opinions. Debated between Rules and Advice forums. Decided rules as I think it would be a more complete answer.

If I was going to put in a storyline that involved an Evil Spirit entity that was bound to say a wooden idol. The spirit uses the idol to possess anyone that carries the idol on their person for more than one cycle of the moon. The Idol is not enchanted magical, just the spirit has bound itself to the idol as a means by which to possess people.

Basically my question is would it be "fair" (rules-wise) to say that Detect Magic would detect nothing from the idol? Detect evil would certainly tell the idol was evil. Basically I don't to have my players after the fact screaming that Detect Magic should have detected it was not normal.

As per Rules as Written, what can be detected with Detect magic? Supernatural abilities? I know Spell-like and Spells as well as magic items are all detected.

I am not sure it the idol would show magic or not. Do ghosts and the like show up with detect magic?

It you are really worried, you can put a permanent magic aura spell on the idol to hide the aura.

I am not sure it the idol would show magic or not. Do ghosts and the like show up with detect magic?

It you are really worried, you can put a permanent magic aura spell on the idol to hide the aura.

Having a permanent Magic Aura on it would imply that someone actually place a permanent magic aura on it which doesnt really fit with the story. Though your question is a good answer and another questions.

Would a Ghost show up to Detect magic?

Would ghost possessing someone show up to detect magic?

As per Rules as Written, what can be detected with Detect magic? Supernatural abilities? I know Spell-like and Spells as well as magic items are all detected.

Supernatural abilities are not detectable; they are merely the potential to do something. Supernatural effects, however, are magical and thus are detectable.

If you are formally writing this up, you will write up the statblock for the evil spirit. When you do, you will include his possession abilities. Presumably these are supernatural abilities.

If you choose to put this in play somehow that does not result in it being detectable, my advice is to consider the mechanisms for how the characters might have some information about the possibility. This might be through a clue of some sort (changing image on the idol over time?), a knowledge check, an NPC sage, a story told at an inn by a bard, etc.

Frankly, this makes things much more enjoyable to players; the lack of "Gotcha" is just a bonus.

If you need the story to progress to a certain point, introduce the clue about what's going on (or what info they have assumed) later. You might also provide some foreshadowing in the form of a less meaningful encounter with the concept. Doing so six months ago would be perfect. ;)

Ninja'd by Howie23.

I was going to suggest Pathfinder Adventure Path #28: Council of Thieves Volume 4: The Infernal Syndrome as a resource. There's a chapter on possession in that book.

The bestiary of that one and also #29 have some fiends that would probably be good inspiration. Thinking specifically of the Adhukait Asura in #28 and the Possession Devil in #29.

Also, the Lar in AP #27 is kind of like a good version of what it sounds like you are going for.

Well if your looking for an answer to an unusual question like that you could always shoot Skip Williams a call over at Kobold Quarterly's Ask the Kobold Section.

Who better to ask then The Sage himself?

If I was going to put in a storyline that involved an Evil Spirit entity that was bound to say a wooden idol. The spirit uses the idol to possess anyone that carries the idol on their person for more than one cycle of the moon. The Idol is not enchanted magical, just the spirit has bound itself to the idol as a means by which to possess people.

It is effectively using magic jar, so yes, its magical.

Basically my question is would it be "fair" (rules-wise) to say that Detect Magic would detect nothing from the idol? Detect evil would certainly tell the idol was evil. Basically I don't to have my players after the fact screaming that Detect Magic should have detected it was not normal.

There are a few ways around it.

1) Non detection. It will probably look VERY suspicious if the item doesn't register at all.

-Has a caster level check.

- Allows a will save

3) Cursed item rules: You need to beat the spellcraft DC by 10 to identify an item that's cursed. If the party doesn't have a high level caster, they could conceivably miss the roll

- Allows a spellcraft skill check.

- This thing should show up on detect magic. It can TRY to hide itself, but if the party gets lucky, asks around for an identification specialist, it should come out that the item is magical. Your best bet is to build the plot around the resources that the party has rather than denying them those resources by saying they don't work.

Basically my question is would it be "fair" (rules-wise) to say that Detect Magic would detect nothing from the idol? Detect evil would certainly tell the idol was evil. Basically I don't to have my players after the fact screaming that Detect Magic should have detected it was not normal.

Opinions?

As per Rules as Written, what can be detected with Detect magic? Supernatural abilities? I know Spell-like and Spells as well as magic items are all detected.

Detect magic senses spells and magic items. I'd also agree that it senses spell-like abilities.

It doesn't detect creatures, in this case (unless the creature is a magic item or a non-instantaneous spell effect). edit: Probably best not to go into supernatural abilities, etc., unless they're relevant to the issue.

I am not sure it the idol would show magic or not. Do ghosts and the like show up with detect magic?

It you are really worried, you can put a permanent magic aura spell on the idol to hide the aura.

I'd have a hard time seeing an object that slowly possesses a person over a month as not being magical. What it's doing isn't mundane (interjecting a poison, say). that only leaves magic.

Why not make it have some kind of chameleon magic, like a spectral octopus. A DC 20 knowledge religion (since it's a spirit) check reveals the jar as being something innocuous or beneficial, like a +1 to fortitude saves. A DC 30 (or some other higher number) reveals the true nature, the apparent fortitude buff actual an alien spirit working its way into the bearer's body.

Essentially, treat it like a cursed item. Even if the idol isn't magical, the creature possessing it is, making it seem magical.

Detect Magic detects magical auras. And nothing else. Generally only two things have magical auras: Magic Items and Spell Effects. As a DM, you can give magic auras to whatever you want, of course.

So, the question is: How does this Evil Idol work? How was the spirit bound to the idol? How does the Idol contain the spirit. Even if the idol's only magic ability is to contain the evil spirit, that could very well make it it a magic item.
If you decide that the spirit is possessing the idol by means of it's own supernatural ability, I don't see anything in the Detect Magic description that says what type of magical aura supernatural abilities have or even that they have one.
Supernatural Abilities, while magical in nature, do not typically produce spell effects. Even if there's a spell that does the same thing, a supernatural ability only produces a spell effect if you (the DM) say it does.
So it's all about how this evil idol works. If you want it to have a magical aura, it can within rules. If you want it to have no magical aura, it can within the rules.
As to the matter of fairness, I think it's entirely fair to let Detect Evil work, but not Detect Magic. Detect Magic is very specific in the type of magic it detects, as is Detect Evil. Detect Magic is not an easy button to detect any and all fantastical things in the world.

It doesn't detect creatures, in this case (unless the creature is a magic item or a non-instantaneous spell effect). edit: Probably best not to go into supernatural abilities, etc., unless they're relevant to the issue.

My party runs around with Death Ward running in many cases, so they'd know about the spirit _very_ quickly, although I do rule that detection spells require line of effect and line of sight, so if the spirit could be 100% contained _inside_ the idol, the Death Ward wouldn't detect it.

The idol itself is not magical just a wooden token. The spirit uses the token as a "focus" to possess people with its supernatural ability.

Just a note though: My plan is not to possess a member of the part but in hopes that they will give the idol to any number of NPC they know and then have to save said NPC knowing they were somewhat responsible. Not even sure I'm going with an idol, I may go with a wooden carved horse or possibly an engraved drinking mug. blah blah

So somepeople are on the stance that Detect magic would detect Supernatural abilities and others state no, as in Detect magic would only detect Spells, Spell-like abilities and Magical Items.

Hmmm. Thinking about it since Anti-magic field supresses Spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities the I guess supernatural abilities could be detected with detect magic.

However detect magic would not detect magic on a Focus for a spell. Unless that focus was used recently to cast the spell and thus possessed a lingering aura. So would detect magic only function once the spirit began the possession?

The idol itself is not magical just a wooden token. The spirit uses the token as a "focus" to possess people with its supernatural ability.

Just a note though: My plan is not to possess a member of the part but in hopes that they will give the idol to any number of NPC they know and then have to save said NPC knowing they were somewhat responsible. Not even sure I'm going with an idol, I may go with a wooden carved horse or possibly an engraved drinking mug. blah blah

So somepeople are on the stance that Detect magic would detect Supernatural abilities and others state no, as in Detect magic would only detect Spells, Spell-like abilities and Magical Items.

Hmmm. Thinking about it since Anti-magic field supresses Spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities the I guess supernatural abilities could be detected with detect magic.

However detect magic would not detect magic on a Focus for a spell. Unless that focus was used recently to cast the spell and thus possessed a lingering aura. So would detect magic only function once the spirit began the possession?

That's probably how I would run it; the mere presence of the spirit would not be enough to trigger detect magic, he would actually have to use his possession ability for there to be an aura.

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I’ll let you read the answer for yourself. But, in summary, there are two types of magic in the world of Dungeons and Dragons. There’s the magic that exists as part of the world. Part of the fiction. And there’s the magic described in the rules of magic. The game’s rules, not the world’s rules.

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