The key that opens the door to occult secrets lies within one's own mind. It is the power of imagination, intuition, and belief that unlocks the hidden knowledge of the universe. This key is unique to each individual and can only be discovered through self-reflection and exploration. It is not a physical object or a tangible tool, but rather a metaphorical symbol for the access to the mystical realm. Occult secrets refer to esoteric knowledge that is beyond the realm of ordinary understanding. It encompasses topics such as astrology, divination, magic, and spirituality, which delve into the unseen forces and energies that shape our reality.
PC I search for secret doors. Perception (rolls), 26
4 It may also be used for uncovering hidden objects and paths, or unlocking doors and avoiding obstacles, making it a useful aspect for thieves and smugglers. This is done by taking on seven lock-scars, one for each of the other standard Principles, and opening oneself in a grand ritual to become a Threshold into the Mansus.
It encompasses topics such as astrology, divination, magic, and spirituality, which delve into the unseen forces and energies that shape our reality. These secrets have been sought after by many throughout history, with countless seekers attempting to uncover the mysteries of the universe. However, the key that truly unlocks these secrets is not found in external sources or rituals, but within oneself.
How do PCs open a secret door
This came up this morning while planning todays session: there's a secret door that reveals a new section of dungeon. The rules state the Perception check (DC 20) needed to find a secret door, but does it work like a trap? Do you need a Perception check PLUS something else to OPEN the door, or does the Perception just give you the whole Kit N Kaboodle?
For the game today I had them roll 2 rolls, both Peception DC 20; one revealed the cleverly hidden rotating door seam in the wall hidden behind the tapestry, the other displayed the fact that the dais they were on was spotless except for a pile of iron scrapings heaped at the foot of a very specific spindle in the wrought iron railing.
We all had fun so I suppose we did it right for the time, but is this right for every time?
Ultimately, I think that is one of those things that is up to you as GM. Perception to find it. Maybe a Disable Device to open the door.
Depends on the door.
Some doors are just 'push a button'. Noticing a Secret Door should be perception check #1. Finding the mechanism (if not obvious) should be perception check #2. Note: sometimes finding the mechanism preceeds finding the door.
Sometimes secret doors require specific mechanisms that would require a Disable Device check to figure out.
Example 1: Secret door triggered by ye olde book in the bookshelf.
Players are searching all of the books when they yank on the right book. Door is found. (This would bypass finding the door first).
Example 2: Secret door in a wall triggered by pushing in a stone above the door. Players are searching the wall for a secret door when they notice the crack in the wall. Thus, they find the door but not the mechanism. Now they need to search for the mechanism.
Example 3: Secret door triggered by playing a harpsichord in the proper sequence. Perception check to notice secret door. Disable Device or Perform check to figure out the sequence.
Summary: Secret doors are highly varied and modules often do not contain much information on the secret door other than the perception check. Be creative.
As far as I am aware, the DC to find the secret door also reveals the means to open it so long as there isn't some extravagant means required (hidden locks, magic words, etc.). If there is something else required it should be listed (DC 22 Str check come to mind from a recent adventure).
Edit: Having seen Gauss' post (beat me by 56 seconds!) I agree with the be creative. If you have a trap/skill-monkey this can give them time to shine and make use of those skills they've invested in.
Or could be something as simple as a rotating door, with a central axis that isn't easily noticeable, PCs might try to open it by pushing at the middle or something.
It's a secret to everybody.
Like all the console games I used to play, with the "insert blocks to open door" or "play these notes on blood-stained piano keys" and such. I now remember why most of my dungeons are just open archways.
Mark Hoover wrote:Like all the console games I used to play, with the "insert blocks to open door" or "play these notes on blood-stained piano keys" and such. I now remember why most of my dungeons are just open archways.
Mine was ripped off Final Fantasy IX.
Most secret doors should be simple. Only a rare few should be complicated. The problem with the games you are referencing is that the game (I know several of them) was built around puzzle solving (when it wasnt combat). Console games are sometimes limited.
As long as it adds some fun and flavor to the game, a secret door is:
1. A treasure: "You found what appears to be a secret door!"
2. An obstacle: "The villain disappeared down this hall into this room, but you don't see him."
3. A puzzle: "You know the treasure lies beyond the secret door (which you found) but what combination of buttons opens it without releasing the poison?" (+xp).
Once you make the perception check, the door is no longer hidden. At that point, it is known as "a door". Opening a door is a move action that requires no additional skill checks.
There is no point following up one Perception check with another; once the party is aware of the door they can take 20 to find any latches required. All you're doing is killing time and wearing out your players' dice.
Now. a locked secret door. that requires two checks, the second of which is a Disable Device check. And of course, a trapped and locked secret door. that's got four checks involved. First they need to find the door. Then they "need" to find the trap. Then they need to disable the trap. Finally they need to disable the lock. Note: it's possible to skip all but the first check by dint of: find door, set of trap (and survive), bash through door with brute force or magic.
Anguish wrote:Once you make the perception check, the door is no longer hidden. At that point, it is known as "a door". Opening a door is a move action that requires no additional skill checks.
There is no point following up one Perception check with another; once the party is aware of the door they can take 20 to find any latches required. All you're doing is killing time and wearing out your players' dice.
Now. a locked secret door. that requires two checks, the second of which is a Disable Device check. And of course, a trapped and locked secret door. that's got four checks involved. First they need to find the door. Then they "need" to find the trap. Then they need to disable the trap. Finally they need to disable the lock. Note: it's possible to skip all but the first check by dint of: find door, set of trap (and survive), bash through door with brute force or magic.
This is entirely dependent on what sort of game you are running. A quick hack-n-slash campaign should probably just assume finding a secret door is the same as figuring out how to open one, which may or may not be locked and/or trapped. Just do the checks and be on your way.
If your game is one that is a more elaborate story-telling campaign, secret doors and passageways can be a very good way to add flavor and tension to the session. They might have spells which allow them to reveal story information to the party, or warn them of the dire consequences of passage, or which reveal how to open them if a riddle is solved, etc.
If your campaign involves elaborate traps or puzzles, secret doors are great opportunities to give the party a chance to use their brains as well as their brawn. The perception check that "revealed" the secret door may actually have only revealed the mechanism to open a door, but not the door's location. Solving the puzzle associated with the mechanism might cause the door to open.
It really all boils down to what you want to do with the story.
Anguish wrote:Once you make the perception check, the door is no longer hidden. At that point, it is known as "a door". Opening a door is a move action that requires no additional skill checks.
There is no point following up one Perception check with another; once the party is aware of the door they can take 20 to find any latches required. All you're doing is killing time and wearing out your players' dice.
I think OP/TC mentioned that one was to notice the secret door itself ("hey, there is a [insert shape name here] `cut` in the wall") the other was to notice an indication there might be a secret door.
So secret doors, unless I'm missing something here are completely subjective? There's no RAW that says what opens or otherwise makes them work other than Anguish's comment that once they're found they're simply doors.
I run a fairly straightforward game but I do enjoy a few puzzles and my players seem responsive to them. I think then I will continue to limit my secret doors and work them like traps: one roll to perceive, another to operate.
Secret doors are just that. Secret. No need to limit them to anything more than having to be some type of door that also has to be secret in some way, be it where they are, how they open or both
GM you see a brick wall
PC I search for secret doors. Perception (rolls), 26
GM you see a door
Something like that? I don't know, something feels decidedly metagamy about it.
GM: You see a room lined with bookshelves along the wall opposite the one you entered and the one to your right. The one to the left has only a large painting of lord Genrall on it. Along the middle of the room is a table with various writing utensils strewn along it. The man you where following is nowhere to be seen
PC: I search for secret doors.
(On near success) GM: You feel a cool breeze but can't locate its source. Maybe it was just your imagination
(On success) GM: You feel a cool breeze from behind the painting. Lifting it off the wall reveals a wooden panel with a keyhole. It doesn't seem to sturdy.
From here on you PC can try to pick it, break it down or search for a key. He might even have found it earlier or know that lady Verna said that she found a key while strolling the garden earlier that day.
I figured most PCs would open a secret door with an adamantine axe. Or maybe the wall next to the door .
One way to hide a secret door is to have a fake one close to it.
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GM you see a brick wall
PC I search for secret doors. Perception (rolls), 26
GM you see a door
Something like that? I don't know, something feels decidedly metagamy about it.
Something like that, yes.
GM: the hallway you've been following ends with a 20x20 room made of ancient masonry. There is no sign of the mercenaries you have been following through the halls.
PC: I search for secret doors. Perception (rolls), 26.
GM: Well, your exhaustive search of the room reveals that the floor has some scuff marks, as though the heels of a body were dragged over the dirt. Following those scuffs, they suggest that the body was dragged through the wall. So, searching for more detail you eventually find that there's a passageway cleverly hidden in the a section of the brick-work. Had you not looked so hard, you would have easily missed the cracks around this secret door as they blend in with the rough bricks quite well. Having found your way out, it's child's play to find a counter-weighted area that needs to be pressed to open the door up.
Really, you're just using Perception similar to opposing a Stealth check. If you hit the number, the target is not hidden from you. "You catch a glimpse of movement from amongst the barrels and realize that your quarry is trying (unsuccessfully) to not be found."
That all said, part of what you've talked about isn't secret doors. It's problem-solving puzzle doors, which are something else entirely. Finding a console with a bunch of levers, or coloured gems, or coin slots, that's what you're talking about. There, the door may or may not be visible, but being hidden isn't important. What's important is pulling the slots in the right order, touching the gems in the right order, or sacrificing the right number of coins. A puzzle. Also known as: a lock. Puzzle doors should be beat by either a> the player(s) figuring out the puzzle or b> a Disable Device or Intelligence check. Not every player is good at puzzles (or likes them), and not every player is as smart as their character. Yes, I'm playing an Int 24 wizard. No, I don't have an IQ of 240. Gorgazag the Arcane Master of the Fifth Plane of Eternal Intellectual Brilliance should be able to figure out how to pull a few levers. Me? Honestly, I'd rather just go get a Mountain Dew from the fridge. anyone else want anything while I'm up? Oh. (rolls). Gorgazag gets a 21 on an Int check. does he figure it out while I'm upstairs?
In the Fifth History, however, the player transforms into a shape reminiscent of the Great Hooded Princes. [15] This suggests that the Princes went through a similar ascension themselves, which also allowed them to escape their demise in the Fifth History. [16] It is unknown if there are other Knock -Long who have ascended through different means.
It is the individual's ability to tap into their own consciousness and explore the depths of their own mind that holds the true power. The key is the realization that we are all connected to the vast web of energy and information that permeates the universe. By harnessing the power of their own mind, individuals can access and interpret the hidden knowledge that lies beyond the veil of the everyday world. Through meditation, visualization, and other spiritual practices, one can open themselves up to the infinite possibilities and insights that the occult world has to offer. The key that opens the door to occult secrets is not a quick fix or a shortcut to enlightenment. It requires dedication, discipline, and an open mind. It is a journey of self-discovery and self-transformation that may take a lifetime to fully comprehend. It is important to approach this quest with humility, respect, and a genuine desire to learn and grow. In conclusion, the key that opens the door to occult secrets is the power within oneself. It lies in the ability to tap into the limitless potential of the mind and explore the mysteries of the universe. It is through self-reflection, imagination, and belief that one can unlock the hidden knowledge that the occult realm has to offer. So, embark on this journey with an open heart and mind, and discover the magic that lies within..
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