Magic Mouth is a spell in the game Dungeons and Dragons (D&D). It is a 2nd-level illusion spell that allows the caster to imbue an object with speech. The object can then deliver a recorded message whenever specific conditions are met. The primary use of Magic Mouth is for creating traps or puzzles that rely on verbal cues or instructions. For example, a magic mouth placed on a door may deliver a message when a certain keyword is spoken, revealing a hidden switch or granting access to a secret room. It can also be used to leave messages or reminders for other party members or NPCs.

D&D 5E Magic Mouth visual trigger & invisibility

Magic Mouth can be set to trigger based on "visual or audible conditions". So what happens if you set it to trigger on a creature passing within 30 feet but the creature is invisible? What if it is a rogue and the stealth check beats the spell DC of the caster? Does the mouth still speak or must the intruder be "visual" to the spell? Thanks for any ideas on how to handle this.

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

Magic Mouth can be set to trigger based on "visual or audible conditions". So what happens if you set it to trigger on a creature passing within 30 feet but the creature is invisible? What if it is a rogue and the stealth check beats the spell DC of the caster? Does the mouth still speak or must the intruder be "visual" to the spell? Thanks for any ideas on how to handle this.

From the spell: "The triggering circumstance can be as general or as detailed as you like, though it must be based on visual or audible conditions that occur within 30 feet of the object. For example, you could instruct the mouth to speak when any creature moves within 30 feet of the object or when a silver bell rings within 30 feet of it."

It would very much depend on the "triggering circumstance," but I'd rule that in general invisibility would not meet the requirements of a trigger that is based on visual conditions. The same goes for a stealthiness and a trigger based on audible conditions. It seems like in some cases, the trigger can be based on both conditions.

If you're a player using this spell and not the DM, I'd make your intent clear to the DM in this regard as well.

Magic Mouth (Wizard Spell)

When this spell is cast, the wizard imbues the chosen object with an enchanted mouth that suddenly appears and speaks its message when a specified event occurs. The message, which must be of 25 words or less, can be in any language known by the spellcaster, and can be delivered over a period of one turn. The mouth cannot speak magical spells or use command words. It does, however, move to the words articulated—if it is placed upon a statue, the mouth of the statue would actually move and appear to speak. Of course, the magic mouth can be placed upon a tree, rock, door, or any other object, excluding intelligent members of the animal or vegetable kingdoms.

The spell functions when specific conditions are fulfilled, according to the command of the spellcaster. Some examples are to speak “to the first creature that touches you,” or “to the first creature that passes within 30 feet.” Commands can be as general or as detailed as desired, although only visual and audible triggers can be used, such as the following: “Speak only when a venerable female human carrying a sack of groat clusters sits crosslegged within 1 foot.” Such visual triggers can react to a character using the disguise ability. Command range is 5 yards per level of the wizard, so a 6th-level wizard can command the magic mouth to speak at a maximum encounter range of 30 yards ("Speak when a winged creature comes within 30 yards."). The spell lasts until the speak command can be fulfilled; thus, the spell duration is variable. A magic mouth cannot distinguish invisible creatures, alignments, level, Hit Dice, or class, except by external garb. If desired, the effect can be keyed to a specific noise or spoken word.

The material component of this spell is a small bit of honeycomb.

Could Magic Mouth be a 10gp alarm for an entire dungeon? (1 Viewer)

I was looking over a few forum threads about hacking Dungeons & Dragons spells to create computers, telegraphs, and other modern conveniences, and Magic Mouth came up a lot. To recap quickly, for 10gp of material components the spell enchants (permanently until dispelled) any one object within 30 feet of the caster that isn't worn or carried by another creature. When a selected condition is met (and there is not limit listed on the condition!) a magical mouth will appear on the object and speak in the caster's voice and volume for up to 25 words with up to a 10 minute interval (so you could have the mouth say, "Hey!" every 24 seconds over 10 minutes).

So then I thought about rope. It's made of many fibers, but they're braided together, and it's all considered to be one rope. So consider a villain who wants to set an alarm for a whole evil lair. Have employees make a rope a thousand or more feet long. Have a wizard cast Magic Mouth on it, telling it to yell, "Intruder!" over and over so long as a person is within 30 feet of the rope who doesn't have a Tattoo of (Evil Symbol) on their body. Then it's just a matter of placing the rope just inside the wall along all the halls and early rooms of the new dungeon, so that any intruders would be constantly standing within 30 feet of some length of the rope.

I have two questions about how this would work. First, would the rope have to be coiled up entirely within 30 feet of the caster at the time of casting, or would just some part of the overall length be enough? Second, would the caster have any control at all over where the mouth would appear along the length of the rope, such as choosing the end that would go furthest from the dungeon entrance so that the guards could place that end at a sentry station?

I have one other question about Magic Mouth in general. Did it really never occur to TSR or Wizards of the Coast that the spell as written would allow a 10gp enchantment to give you, just as one example, a helmet enchanted to warn you if an invisible creature moves within 30 feet of you, or an undead creature, or you're within 30 feet of a trap's trigger? Even something that tells you when you're within 10 feet of a tensioned spring would be a great warning for dungeon delvers.

Grumpygoat

Fuck Fascists

At least based on 5e rules, the cues must be visual or audible. An invisible creature gets around any visual cues, and trying to tie detection to the sounds an invisible creature make would be difficult - "Say 'alarm' when the sound of footfalls without a visible source come within 10 feet of me" will grow mighty obnoxious when there's someone on the other side of a door 5 feet away, who can be heard but not seen.

Putting the rope inside a wall would also prevent the mouth from working. Anyone with total cover from the mouth should not trigger any visual-based conditions. You could do sound-based triggers, but that prevents special tattoos from working. This also limits the utility of detecting traps, since many will be covered up (although a tripwire might not be). This is some degree of interpretation on my part, but it has a sound basis.

The spell also specifies that a mouth appears and that, on objects with mouths, it would appear on the object's mouth. A rope doesn't have a mouth, of course, but the location would be static. I'd say it appears on one end of the rope - which is arguably more helpful, because the alarm will only be heard in one room. So adventurers might not know they've triggered an alarm, but the dragon in her lair would.

blade_mercurial

Member

Did it really never occur to TSR or Wizards of the Coast that the spell as written would allow a 10gp enchantment to give you, just as one example, a helmet enchanted to warn you if an invisible creature moves within 30 feet of you, or an undead creature, or you're within 30 feet of a trap's trigger? Even something that tells you when you're within 10 feet of a tensioned spring would be a great warning for dungeon delvers.

Absolutely it occurred to TSR designers. It had SUBSTANTIALLY more restrictions on it in previous editions, and a lot of the 'abuses' that players came up with over the years were supposedly shot down with rulings that further limited its use (based on what I've read---I certainly haven't played all editions).

So its really only 5th edition that opens the door wide for potential 'abuse' (although AD&D 2nd edition version of the spell increased the range to 30'--previous versions was 10'---and added the option of casting Permanency on it; but that had additional costs).

Oxygen Destroyer

White and fuzzy

Because of the limitation that the trigger must be visual or audible, a stealthed invisible creature, undead hiding in coffins, or a hidden trap wouldn't trigger the spell. That's all rules as written.

If I were a DM at a table where one of my players wanted to try the Magic Mouth rope alarm, I would tell them two things. First, the enchanted object must be exposed (the visual and audible caveats, those are in the rules). Second, the focal point is wherever the mouth appears, and the area to be monitored is the 30' radius around the focal point. That is a ruling on my part, and it allows me to short-circuit questions about whether a castle or an entire cliff wall or some other preposterously large thing counts as "an object." It also disallows cool gimmicks like a gargantuan statue that booms out "Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" whenever someone approaches, but that's the price of rules-lawyering.

For a villain's lair, I would just have them cast Magic Mouth all over the place instead of trying to play rope games on the cheap.

shikomekidomi

Validated User

. If I were a DM at a table where one of my players wanted to try the Magic Mouth rope alarm, I would tell them two things. First, the enchanted object must be exposed (the visual and audible caveats, those are in the rules). Second, the focal point is wherever the mouth appears, and the area to be monitored is the 30' radius around the focal point. That is a ruling on my part, and it allows me to short-circuit questions about whether a castle or an entire cliff wall or some other preposterously large thing counts as "an object." It also disallows cool gimmicks like a gargantuan statue that booms out "Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" whenever someone approaches, but that's the price of rules-lawyering.

Well, you could have a statue that's 30 feet tall, at least. That's not small, even if it wouldn't work on the Statue of Liberty.

For a villain's lair, I would just have them cast Magic Mouth all over the place instead of trying to play rope games on the cheap.

Yeah, it's not like most villains are low on money. Besides this way you could have the various mouths say different things (Like "Intruders in the Armory" and "Intruders in the Entrance Hall") so you actually know where the intruders are, instead of having one general alarm.

Oxygen Destroyer

White and fuzzy

Yeah, it's not like most villains are low on money. Besides this way you could have the various mouths say different things (Like "Intruders in the Armory" and "Intruders in the Entrance Hall") so you actually know where the intruders are, instead of having one general alarm.

That's a great idea. With other Magic Mouths to relay the message if the lair is large/soundproofed.

As far as I can tell, Magic Mouth seems to have been created so DMs could add cool elements to their adventures. Statues that threaten would-be tomb raiders with the pharaoh's curse. Purses that squeak "'Ere, 'oo are you?" when they're pickpocketed. I'm more inclined to be lenient with something close to the intended use.

shikomekidomi

Validated User

That's a great idea. With other Magic Mouths to relay the message if the lair is large/soundproofed.
As far as I can tell, Magic Mouth seems to have been created so DMs could add cool elements to their adventures. Statues that threaten would-be tomb raiders with the pharaoh's curse. Purses that squeak "'Ere, 'oo are you?" when they're pickpocketed. I'm more inclined to be lenient with something close to the intended use.

Well, given that we're assuming a rich villain, putting the Magic Mouths on statues or paintings would be nicely thematic.

Marc17

Member

Well, you could have a statue that's 30 feet tall, at least. That's not small, even if it wouldn't work on the Statue of Liberty.

Yeah, it's not like most villains are low on money. Besides this way you could have the various mouths say different things (Like "Intruders in the Armory" and "Intruders in the Entrance Hall") so you actually know where the intruders are, instead of having one general alarm.

With a couple of hundred GP, which would be pretty cheap for even a low level dungeon, it could be pretty well tricked out. As for the statue, you could have an initial spell on the base to get the range and then that sets off the one on the actual face to which makes the statue look like it's talking. Mix in some normal traps to catch the invisible sneakers wandering off on their own. I had something like that set up in the dungeon that my PCs are in now trying to hunt down a high level wizard who specializes in illusions. I had all sorts of trickery planned for it but everything is pretty much happening in the first room. Programed illusions to mess with anybody not escorted by some of the bad guys. Alarms like being spoken about here that would cause chain reactions so it would notify the entire dungeon. Doors covered up by illusions which say things to the PCs. Even the NPC that is imprisoned in the dungeon is just held in the illusion of a cell with the illusion of being chained to the wall.

Praetus

Validated User

At least based on 5e rules, the cues must be visual or audible. . .

Putting the rope inside a wall would also prevent the mouth from working. . .

The spell also specifies that a mouth appears and that, on objects with mouths, it would appear on the object's mouth. A rope doesn't have a mouth, of course, but the location would be static. I'd say it appears on one end of the rope - which is arguably more helpful, because the alarm will only be heard in one room. So adventurers might not know they've triggered an alarm, but the dragon in her lair would.

Sorry, I missed the "visual or audible trigger" part of the description because of the way the very next sentence was worded in the spell description. Bit of a waste of everyone's time, there.

The single biggest issue with the spell is that there is nothing there to define the limits of the word "object." The 30' requirement is just the casting range, and applying it to the size of the target would be like saying a Fireball (150' casting range, 20-foot radius blast) was unable to hit a target 160' away because the spell is limited to 150'. Without a size constraint, there's nothing to really say that "the entire castle" can't be the spell's target. Also, simply coiling up the rope around a pole could easily place it within a 10' space, never mind 30 feet. It could be targeted by the spell, then picked up and moved, which would include stretching it out straight. By RAW there's nothing to stop that part from working.

Rather than sealing the rope inside the wall, then, there are two ways around that limit. One would be to place it behind the wall with small holes or gratings exposing it in places, which would be the trigger points for the alarm. They could be quite low to the ground, but run a long way. The other way would simply be to insert the rope into grooves in the wall for the same effect. This doesn't fix the Invisibility spell workaround, but that's what Invisibility is for, so I have no problem with that. Your average Fighter or Cleric would have more trouble dealing with this setup, and a magic-wielding character casting Invisibility would spend a spell slot for the privilege, so that's totally balanced. There would be the odd tripwire or pressure plate added here and there to trouble the invisible intruders, since, as people have said, people who build complexes and fortresses have the money to spare.

I also like the idea that the rope looks so ordinary that most intruders would either ignore it ("If it were important they wouldn't have left it visible") or leave it undisturbed because they figure it's a trap element ("It has to be connected to an alarm bell or something, if we cut it we'll be letting them know we're coming"). If the party's invisible intruder decides to cut the rope then they've taken a risk that will pay off handsomely, which is also fair. "How did you get in here!? How did you get past our rope!?" "We . . . cut it?"

That reminds me of another detail. Rope is made of hundreds or thousands of fibers, depending on thickness, bound together. It's the same as calling several pieces of fabric and thread "a shirt" or steel plates connected by rivets and leather straps "a suit of armor." So the same would apply to a chain. Could you use Magic Mouth on the chain holding a ship's anchor to speak up when something humanoid is moving up the chain, to safeguard the ship in waters inhabited by undead zombie-sailors or Tritons? If so, then the villainous mastermind could stretch a chain along the walls of the dungeon for the same effect and make it even harder to bypass. They could also deal with the "which end does the talking" issue by molding the final link that goes in the guard's station to have a metal mouth sculpted into it.

Not relevant to this discussion, but I just had a fun side notion. An emperor is concerned about possible assassins, so he makes every visitor to his palace give up all weapons except a dagger, and replaces that with a finely crafted dagger as a conversation piece. Each dagger has a Magic Mouth spell on it with instructions to note when it is drawn in certain areas of the palace (the throne room, for instance, or the emperor's private rooms), and shout for the guards. It's not perfect security, but it definitely improves security in the palace.

It can also be used to leave messages or reminders for other party members or NPCs. To cast Magic Mouth, a spellcaster needs a small replica of the mouth they want to create, typically made of jade, and worth at least 10 gold pieces. They then spend one minute to cast the spell, allowing them to choose the message and conditions for it to activate.

The message can be up to 25 words long and must be spoken in a language understood by the target audience. The spell lasts until the message is delivered, or until a certain number of days have passed, depending on the caster's choice. The mouth can be affixed to almost any object, such as a statue, wall, or piece of furniture. When the conditions are met, the mouth animates, delivering the message in a voice chosen by the caster. Magic Mouth is a versatile spell that can add depth and intrigue to a D&D campaign. It allows players to create interactive environments and engage in creative problem-solving. Whether used for practical purposes or as a narrative tool, Magic Mouth adds a touch of magic and mystery to the world of D&D..

Reviews for "Best Practices for Writing Compelling Messages for Magic Mouth in D&D"

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Magic Mouth vs. Message: Choosing the Right Communication Spell for Your Needs