Once upon a time in a peaceful kingdom, there lived a powerful and cunning sorceress named Morgana. She was known for her dark magic and her ability to deceive even the most astute minds. Morgana's greatest power lay in her enchanting spells, which she used to manipulate others and further her own wicked agenda. One fateful day, a young prince named Alexander crossed paths with Morgana. He was a kind-hearted and noble individual, unaware of the sorceress's true nature. Unbeknownst to him, Morgana had been watching him from afar, captivated by his charm and righteousness.
For example, complaining that Guidance was broken because it made Clerics better at skills than Rogues or Bards. They were using it for Stealth and allowing the cast to ignore the verbal and somatic components.
Affected creatures must make an intelligence saving throw, on a fail they take 1d4 psychic damage and have disadvantage on intelligence checks and saving throws until the end of their next turn. What I m talking about is a risk reward trade-off in difficult social situations such as law enforcement frowning on public displays of magic, as you suggested.
Unbeknownst to him, Morgana had been watching him from afar, captivated by his charm and righteousness. She devised a plan to ensnare him using her deceitful spell. Morgana approached Alexander, disguised as a helpless maiden in distress.
D&D 5E Deceptive Spellcasting
I have noticed people talking a lot about how they allow spellcasters to hide the casting of their spells and even not have their effects noticed even when they have a clear effect.
Most spells should be obvious. They are very powerful abilities, but their downside is that you can't be subtle about it.
The most common form of this is having a character whisper the Verbal components. They require "specific pitch and resonance" and as such should not be able to be whispered.
Somatic components ". include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures." You can't change the gestures of a spell just to make it more subtle.
Material components are again, pretty obvious.
Then there is the matter of people living in a world where spells exist. Most NPCs should be able to recognize a spell being cast. It is an important thing to learn about. Casting spells on other people should also be illegal. It is assault or worse.
log in or register to remove this adwedgeski
Adventurer
Notwithstanding your snippets from the PHB, I'd have a hard time telling a bard that he couldn't weave magic into a song or limerick, but that's just a personal call.
Otherwise, Stealth, Performance, and Sleight of Hand checks are all available for the DM in these circumstances, naturally with some kind of penalty to the effectiveness of the spell on failure, or perhaps whatever happens (Disadvantage on attack rolls, opponent advantage on Saving Throws, etc.).
ad_hoc
(they/them)
Notwithstanding your snippets from the PHB, I'd have a hard time telling a bard that he couldn't weave magic into a song or limerick, but that's just a personal call.
Otherwise, Stealth, Performance, and Sleight of Hand checks are all available for the DM in these circumstances, naturally with some kind of penalty to the effectiveness of the spell on failure, or perhaps whatever happens (Disadvantage on attack rolls, opponent advantage on Saving Throws, etc.).
And I think allowing that to happen is a huge buff for spellcasters that they don't need. It is also a nerf to Sorcerers. Subtle Spell should be a unique ability that only they get.
wedgeski
Adventurer
And I think allowing that to happen is a huge buff for spellcasters that they don't need. It is also a nerf to Sorcerers. Subtle Spell should be a unique ability that only they get.
Nah. Subtle spell gets the sorcerer out of a jail cell when he's bound and gagged. What I'm talking about is a risk/reward trade-off in difficult social situations (such as law enforcement frowning on public displays of magic, as you suggested).
ad_hoc
(they/them)
Nah. Subtle spell gets the sorcerer out of a jail cell when he's bound and gagged. What I'm talking about is a risk/reward trade-off in difficult social situations (such as law enforcement frowning on public displays of magic, as you suggested).
That is reducing Subtle Spell to a very narrow application.
Spellcasting is anything but subtle. You can't whisper. The pitch, resonance, movements, etc. are all exact and specific.
Maybe in the situation you describe it should be the Rogue or Fighter that steps up and uses their skills for the party's benefit.
Magic is brute force. In a social situation you can cast a spell to compell people to do things, but there will be repercussions.
KahlessNestor
Adventurer
And yet it happens in the novels all the time. I'm not too worried about it.
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wedgeski
Adventurer
That is reducing Subtle Spell to a very narrow application.
Spellcasting is anything but subtle. You can't whisper. The pitch, resonance, movements, etc. are all exact and specific.
Maybe in the situation you describe it should be the Rogue or Fighter that steps up and uses their skills for the party's benefit.
Magic is brute force. In a social situation you can cast a spell to compell people to do things, but there will be repercussions.
Eh, honestly I think that strips the game of potential drama for the very small cost of *slightly* reducing the Sorcerer's niche. Your reading of the spellcasting rules is reasonable, but not one by which I'd live or die.
ad_hoc
(they/them)
Eh, honestly I think that strips the game of potential drama for the very small cost of *slightly* reducing the Sorcerer's niche. Your reading of the spellcasting rules is reasonable, but not one by which I'd live or die.
I feel like you haven't read my posts.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
How spellcasting works in this regard is entirely up to the group. The game works fine if one allows subtle spellcasting.
I just require a bluff or slight of hand check, and investigate or arcana to detect the spell in spite of the attempt to hide it.
jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
Lots of ways you can play the game. If your group is having fun you're doing it right. If someone else is having fun playing differently, they are doing it right too.
ad_hoc
(they/them)
Lots of ways you can play the game. If your group is having fun you're doing it right. If someone else is having fun playing differently, they are doing it right too.
But we shouldn't discuss anything?
Buffing spellcasting by not having them be noticed by other characters causes all sorts of problems.
I made the thread in response to a variety of posts I have seen lately either stating that certain spells are overpowered or are must haves. It turns out in these cases the problem was ignoring the components of the spell.
For example, complaining that Guidance was broken because it made Clerics better at skills than Rogues or Bards. They were using it for Stealth and allowing the cast to ignore the verbal and somatic components.
So they were having a bad time but blaming the spell Guidance rather than their mishandling of spellcasting.
Satyrn
First Post
I feel like you haven't read my posts.That may be because you're not expressing yourself clearly, and he's interpreted your posts differently than you intended them to be interpreted.
When I read your OP, for example, it seems like you're telling people they're playing wrong, that what you think is the right way is The Right Way.
But that's probably not what you mean, so you're probably not expressing yourself clearly.
Satyrn
First Post
But we shouldn't discuss anything?
Buffing spellcasting by not having them be noticed by other characters causes all sorts of problems.
I made the thread in response to a variety of posts I have seen lately either stating that certain spells are overpowered or are must haves. It turns out in these cases the problem was ignoring the components of the spell.
For example, complaining that Guidance was broken because it made Clerics better at skills than Rogues or Bards. They were using it for Stealth and allowing the cast to ignore the verbal and somatic components.
So they were having a bad time but blaming the spell Guidance rather than their mishandling of spellcasting.
Oh, that's better. Now I see that you're talking about helping people fix poor experiences that they've described.
jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
But we shouldn't discuss anything?If you're interested in the question "Is it better to allow subtle spell casting or not?" then that's something that can be debated. But your posts do seem to come across as: "If you allow subtle spell casting then you are doing it wrong." If you're just interested in stating your opinion then what is there to debate?
Buffing spellcasting by not having them be noticed by other characters causes all sorts of problems.
I made the thread in response to a variety of posts I have seen lately either stating that certain spells are overpowered or are must haves. It turns out in these cases the problem was ignoring the components of the spell.
For example, complaining that Guidance was broken because it made Clerics better at skills than Rogues or Bards. They were using it for Stealth and allowing the cast to ignore the verbal and somatic components.
So they were having a bad time but blaming the spell Guidance rather than their mishandling of spellcasting.
Explanation like this is more helpful.
Me, I don't allow subtle spell casting in general because I think you have to say the V component firmly.
jgsugden
Legend
There is a lot of advice from Crawford out there on this topic. There are obvious physical and verbal elements to spellcasting, but you can disguise them, hide them or obscure them if you're smart.
Casting a spell in a loud and bustling marketplace, even when it involves huge gestures and loud speaking, might go unnoticed by the target. If the spell has no obvious signs, the target may never know it was the subject of a spell. That is all well explained in the rules / advice.
If you have a quiet room, the spellcaster is mere feet from the target and the spell has verbal and somatic components . well, you need to be able to mislead the target if you want them to not realize you've cast a spell. Do you have an excuse for the gestures, weird speech and bat guano you're flinging / bell you're chiming / etc. Those things might not be too out of place if they come from someone that looks like a crazy person. or might seem perfectly logical as part of a blessing or ceremony. Can the spellcaster pull off such a ruse? Sounds like a roleplaying challenge to me.
In the end, I think the proper question is not, "What is too powerful?" I think the question to be asked when a PC wants to pull this type of thing off is, "What is the most fun way to proceed?"
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
My view of casting is that the components aren't set in stone. Those listed or described are the "traditional" ones, and many casters will view them as having to be exactly right, while others will use completely different sounds and gestures (Fuego! Rather than Ignis! To set a thing on fire) to cast the same spell.
I also figure it is harder to cast subtly, because you are splitting focus, and the components are there to help focus your will as it is.
Notwithstanding your snippets from the PHB, I'd have a hard time telling a bard that he couldn't weave magic into a song or limerick, but that's just a personal call.
Pretending to be lost and in need of assistance, she played on his generous nature and convinced him to accompany her to a nearby cottage. Little did Alexander know that the cottage was enchanted and would soon become his prison. Inside the cottage, Morgana revealed her true identity and the purpose of her deceitful spell. She wished to possess Alexander's power and use it to bring darkness and chaos to the kingdom. With her enchanting voice and seductive charm, she cast her spell upon him, trapping him in a state of oblivion. Under Morgana's spell, Alexander transformed into a puppet, completely under her control. He had no recollection of his true self or the kingdom he once protected. With her newfound power, Morgana began to spread fear and discord throughout the land. As time passed, whispers of the prince's disappearance reached the ears of the kingdom's inhabitants. The once peaceful and prosperous land had become a place of despair and misery. The people longed for their beloved prince to return and restore order. Meanwhile, within the enchanted cottage, a flicker of light remained within Alexander's soul. Though trapped, he could feel the darkness surrounding him and the suffering of his people. Deep down, he knew he must break free from Morgana's deceitful spell and save his kingdom. Through sheer willpower and a flicker of his past memories, Alexander managed to resist Morgana's control. He discovered an ancient spell hidden within the depths of the cottage and used it to break free from his prison. The power of love and righteousness surged through him, empowering him to face Morgana once and for all. In a climactic battle, Alexander confronted Morgana, using his newfound strength and determination to overcome her dark magic. With each strike, the hold of Morgana's deceitful spell weakened, until finally, she was defeated. The kingdom rejoiced as their prince returned, brimming with light and righteousness. Alexander had learned a valuable lesson about the power of deception and the importance of remaining true to oneself. He vowed to protect his kingdom with unyielding loyalty and never be swayed by the illusion of deceitful spells again. And so, peace was restored in the land, and the deceitful spell of Morgana became a cautionary tale for generations to come. The kingdom thrived under Prince Alexander's rule, forever remembering the destructive power of deceit and the triumphant victory of truth and righteousness..
Reviews for "Finding Truth in a Web of Lies: Deceitful Spells Uncovered"
1. Emma - 2 stars - I was really disappointed with "A deceitful spell". The plot was convoluted and hard to follow, with too many unnecessary twists and turns. The characters felt flat and poorly developed, making it difficult to connect with them or care about their fates. The writing style was also quite mediocre, lacking depth and leaving me feeling unsatisfied. Overall, I wouldn't recommend this book to others looking for a captivating and well-written fantasy novel.
2. John - 1 star - I found "A deceitful spell" to be quite boring and unoriginal. The story felt like a mash-up of various fantasy clichés, with no unique or interesting elements to make it stand out. The pacing was slow and drab, and it seemed to take forever for anything of significance to happen. I was also disappointed by the lack of character development and the shallow dialogue. All in all, this book failed to capture my attention or engage me in any meaningful way.
3. Sarah - 2 stars - "A deceitful spell" left me feeling underwhelmed and unsatisfied. The plot promised intrigue and suspense, but it fell flat on delivery. The twists and turns were predictable and lacked the element of surprise I was hoping for. The writing style was average at best, and the dialogue felt forced and unnatural. The characters were forgettable and lacked depth, making it difficult to invest in their journey. Overall, this book didn't live up to my expectations and I wouldn't recommend it to fellow fantasy enthusiasts.
4. Mike - 3 stars - While "A deceitful spell" had its moments, overall I found it to be a mediocre read. The plot had potential, but it lacked depth and failed to fully explore the interesting concepts it introduced. The pacing was uneven, with slow parts that dragged on and rushed scenes that left me confused. The characters were decently developed, but I couldn't fully connect with them or understand their motivations. The writing style was passable, but it lacked the richness and descriptive language needed to truly transport me into the fantasy world. Overall, this book fell short of being a standout in the genre.
5. Amanda - 2 stars - "A deceitful spell" had an interesting premise, but it failed to deliver on its potential. The story felt disjointed and lacked a clear direction, making it difficult to fully immerse myself in the narrative. The characters were one-dimensional and lacked depth, leaving me feeling indifferent towards their plights. The writing style was also lacking, with clunky sentence structures and repetitive phrases. While there were some intriguing ideas sprinkled throughout, they were overshadowed by the book's overall lackluster execution. Unfortunately, I cannot recommend this book to others seeking a captivating fantasy read.