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Thankfully, “This Magic Moment” didn’t have that. It did, however, have that staged shot of Shaq and Penny sitting by the pool that bookended the doc. There’s a hoop sitting in the pool and Penny shoots a ball at that clearly missed, but we instead get a cutaway shot that has Shaq saying “oh, still got it, huh?” Between that and Shaq’s scripted line of “lotta what-ifs when it comes to you and me,” I was slightly bummed that was used. It felt a little forced.

The Magic selected Chris Webber, but immediately traded him to the Golden State Warriors in return for Penny Hardaway, 1993 s 2 overall draft pick, and cash. In the 2010 season, Kobe made himself a legend in the NBA by leading the Lakers in defending their NBA Championship and this time it was a rematch against the Celtics, and the Lakers Celtics rivalry is the biggest rivalry in the NBA.

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A Chat with Shaq and Penny Hardaway About the ’90s Magic

A new ESPN 30 for 30 explores the revolutionary mid-’90s Orlando squad that never quite got to the top. GQ sat down with both legends to talk about everything from injuries to beating Michael Jordan and the Bulls.

ESPN will premiere its latest 30 for 30 film, This Magic Moment, tonight at 9 P.M. on the East Coast. The two-hour documentary, directed by Gentry Kirby and Erin Leyden with participation from Shaquille O’Neal and Anfernee “Penny” Hardaway, takes an in-depth look at the expansion-era Orlando Magic and how they grew into a championship contender.

After making the NBA Finals in 1995 and then losing to the 72-win Bulls in 1996, Shaq left to sign with the Los Angeles Lakers in free agency. Penny dealt with a litany of injuries and was never the same again. The rise of the Magic was an improbable story, their breakup even more so. Earlier this week, we caught up with Shaq and Penny to talk about their time in Orlando and much more. The interviews were conducted separately.

Why did you two decide to revisit your brief time together in Orlando after all these years?

Shaq: We got lost in the shuffle as one of the greatest one-two punches in history. We wanted to make sure people didn’t forget. People talk about Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, Penny was in that category before he got hurt.

Penny: We felt like the story needed to be told. We were one of the forgotten teams. We wanted people to remember that we were pretty good.

The film talks about how the two of you met on the set of Blue Chips after the 1992 season, just as Shaq finished his rookie season and Penny was entering the draft. Does Penny end up on the Magic if you two don’t make that movie together?

Shaq: No, not at all. I didn’t know who Penny was.

"I win money all the time now, especially with the young guys, when I ask them who was the last team to beat the Bulls. They forget."

Penny: I don’t think I'd end up in Orlando. We played real basketball on set, it wasn’t scripted. So I made sure that every chance I got I fed him, just to let him know, this is how it would be if I played on your team in the NBA.

Shaq: I was adamant to [management], I said, “Hey, if you don’t get this guy, my deal is up and I’m going to look to do different things. So help me help you.” I knew what Penny could do. They listened to me. It was the right thing to do.

Shaq seems like the type to pull a lot of pranks on his teammates.

Penny: Thank god he left me alone. But he pulled pranks on everybody else. Shaq was always doing something. He had one of our teammates, David Vaughn, take off his jacket and shirt in a blizzard when we flew into Chicago and just started wrestling him in the snow.

Shaq: I don’t remember that. But I did a lot of stuff. I have former teammates come up to me now reminding me of things. I got so many stories, I can’t even keep track.

Was Universal Studios a place you visited often when you played in Orlando?

Shaq: All the time. My favorite was the Terminator 2 3D ride, because they had me in the pre-show video.

Penny: I lived seven minutes from it, it was right around the corner. I was there all the time, like a little kid. My favorite ride was Back to the Future, for whatever reason.

Shaq, from the rap albums to commercials to movies, you met a lot of celebrities at a young age. Who left you starstruck?

Shaq: Halle Berry. She was wearing no makeup, but she was just as beautiful as she was in any movie or commercial. And she knew my name. She said, “Hi Shaquille, I’m a fan of yours.” I was like, awwww, awwww [more inaudible noises].

The Magic make a run to the NBA Finals in 1995. What were some of the more memorable moments?

Penny: Beating the Celtics in the first round and closing the series out in the final game at the Boston Garden was really special because of all the history, all the championships and the great players and coaches that had come through there. It was a great feeling.

Shaq: When we beat Jordan and the Bulls in the second round. Nobody in the Eastern Conference accomplished that in the ’90s. I win money all the time now, especially with the young guys, when I ask them who was the last team to beat the Bulls. They forget.

In the film, it’s clear the Magic were very confident heading into the Finals against the Rockets, even though they were the defending champions. Shaq, you even recorded a rap song before the series with Brian Shaw and Anthony Avent that was basically about celebrating a championship season.

Shaq: We had beaten them before. Hakeem Olajuwon was a great player, he was going to get his 25 points, but I was going to get mine.

Penny: We were overconfident. We had beaten them in the regular season, and we thought San Antonio would have been the harder matchup. We felt like the favorites, even though they had a veteran team. The regular season was different from the playoffs, but we felt like we owned the Rockets.

You end up getting swept, and the film revisits those excruciating moments at the end of Game 1, when Nick Anderson missed four consecutive free throws with the team up three at the end of regulation. It’s still so painful to watch years later.

Shaq: I’m not the one to talk about someone making or missing their free throws. But when Nick missed the first two, he pumped his chest and I said, “Alright, he’s going to make these.”

Penny: I was in Atlanta last week with Shaq, and I was looking at [the game footage] again and I was like, “Wow.” It seemed like we lost our spirit after that first game. We were young and never recovered fully.

Shaq: It definitely wasn’t Nick’s fault. I missed some free throws, too.

Penny, what was your initial reaction when Nike pitched the Chris Rock–Lil’ Penny idea to you?

Penny: I thought it was funny. I had never thought of having an alter ego. It sounded fun, and Chris could do all the work and the humor would just come from him.

Shaq, you released a Planet Reebok commercial during the 1996 season where, toward the end, you appear to knock Lil’ Penny off the couch. In the film, you said Penny didn’t talk to you for a week. Was there friction between you two, whether it was jealousy, ego, having to share a team, all of those things?

Shaq: There was never friction between us. I think it was more outside people asking whose team is it, who deserved to be paid more, silly stuff like that.

Penny: If there was something going on, it wasn’t noticeable. Maybe there were things going on behind the scenes. But we played well together. It didn’t affect our play.

Shaq, do you leave Orlando for Los Angeles in the summer of 1996 if the Magic just came right out and offered him the max amount of money available, instead of starting out with an offer below the max?

Shaq: Nope.

Penny: I never thought that he would leave. We were at the Olympics during the summer, and Charles Barkley and everyone else was chiming in on how crazy it was that Orlando didn’t want to pay Shaq. Everybody understood the magnitude of what was going on, except for Orlando. You can’t lose a guy like that and recover from it.

Penny, in the film, there’s a clip that shows that you literally found out Shaq had signed with the Lakers while you were both at a group podium press conference for the Olympics.

Penny: They asked me how I felt now that Shaq is gone. I was like, “Well, if it happens, then I’ll just wish him well.” I didn’t know it had already gone down. He never told me. We didn’t speak much over the summer. We didn’t speak much at all.

Were you more angry at Shaq or the team?

Penny: I was more angry at him. I would have spoken to him if I was thinking of leaving. Shaq apologized to me [recently] for leaving and said he’d handle it differently if he had a chance to do it again. He apologized for not involving me and leaving me stranded.

Penny, in the film you talk about how difficult it was to watch Shaq win those titles with Kobe because that should have been you. If you and Shaq had stayed together, do you two end up splitting up the way Shaq and Kobe did?

Penny: No, no. Kobe has a different temperament than me. We’re both competitive, but he was much more outspoken. I would let anything roll off me. Nothing bothered me. I never complained. I was an introvert. You could tell Shaq and Kobe were fighting and couldn’t get along. Me? I just wanted to win. I didn’t care about titles, unless they were championship titles. I don’t care about who the man is on the team. I basically bowed down to Shaq, but my play earned me a First Team All-NBA selection (in 1996). I wasn’t trying to make First Team All-NBA, I just wanted to win.

A present team that might draw comparisons to the Shaq-Penny Magic are the Thunder, with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Do you see similarities in the narrative?

Shaq: Nope. The only tandem you can compare for Penny and Shaq is Kobe and Shaq.

Penny: Yeah, definitely. Russell can’t get to a point where he feels like he can do it without Kevin, and vice versa. I think they’re onto something special if they can get the supporting cast right. It was like when we signed Horace Grant, we started heading in the right direction. Right now, their supporting cast isn’t strong enough to help them beat the Spurs or Warriors.

Penny, do you believe that if Shaq hadn’t left, and you didn’t have to shoulder more of the load in Orlando, that you could have avoided some of the injuries you sustained?

Penny: You can’t put it on shouldering the load. I gave it my all and the injuries happened. Hindsight is always 20-20. Maybe it wouldn’t have happened if Shaq was there. But you can’t blame it on that. It was bad luck for the Magic and bad luck for myself.

Shaq, you said recently you wished you had stayed in Orlando. Do you have any regrets about the time you spent with the Magic?

Shaq: I don’t regret anything. You don’t figure these things out until you’ve made mistakes, then you go back and look at it. I was young. I didn’t know anything.

Shaq: It definitely wasn’t Nick’s fault. I missed some free throws, too.

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